#2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

[00:01] Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. [00:12] Ben? Good to see you again, man. So last time you were on, we barely scratched the surface of all the things that we wanted to talk about. So immediately we were like, we've got to do another one quick. Because you wanted to talk about the Sphinx. The Sphinx, yes. Yeah, we were on, we got into the, well, the Labyrinth was kind of the big thing. Labyrinth is nuts. I still haven't been able to get over it. [00:30] metallic shape, tic-tac shape thing that's in the ground? Like, what is that? Well, I hope we'll find out. I mean, I don't know. It's the wheels do turn a little slowly, but the point of that was to try and drive some awareness. Maybe we'll get... [00:44] some sort of angel investor in there to go and look at it and solve the problem, do something. Someone needs to talk to Elon. Yeah, maybe. I'm not the guy. I talk to him too much as it is. He's too busy. But someone who can annoy him. He's solving other problems. Yeah. Or maybe Bezos would like to be the first guy to get in there. [01:01] Someone has to get in there. You have to figure out what that thing is. That's crazy. This might be one of the biggest mysteries in the entire human civilization record. Yeah. Who's the director that went to the bottom of the... Oh, Cameron. Cameron. I mean, he likes going places that nobody's gone before. They do a whole lot of it, maybe... [01:16] Someone should do it. They just – I don't think enough people know. A lot of people know that we're listening to this podcast, but not enough people that would do something, that can do something. You know what I mean? It's like we reach a lot of knuckleheads. [01:31] We reach a lot – with some wide variety of people. But the percentage of people that have the resources to – To make something happen. They have to work something out with the Egyptian government, right? So they have to do something with those dams.

[01:42] Yes, well, you don't have to – no, I don't think it takes the dams. You would have to remediate the water on the site, at least like somehow box it out, right? You've got to drain – you'd have to drain this massive area. Or at least if you were targeted enough, you might be able to drain a smaller area to then excavate in that area. We should probably explain to people that didn't listen to the last podcast just a real quick synopsis. Real quick synopsis. So the labyrinth, it's – we're talking about the great lost labyrinth of ancient Egypt, which was described by figures like Herodotus, Deodorus, Siculus, Pliny the Elder – [02:11] Figures from antiquity, these authors, and they've described it as being greater in magnificence than the pyramids. Like they had these just mind-bending... [02:20] descriptions of what this site was like multiple levels 3 000 rooms you would get lost in it it had giant courtyards with pillars all made from i mean one guy i think it was strabo described the roof as being a single piece of stone which i don't think it was but it's describing those perfect joins that you see in the real megalithic work from egypt so it's this giant mystery we know it's there and it was kind of lost to time until uh we found it again basically it was discovered [02:50] clues about its location. It was always theorised to have been at this place called Hawara, which is near the Fayoum in Egypt. [02:58] And Petrie went there and dug it up, a Flinders Petrie in the late 1800s, early 1900s. And he found massive stone slabs and he thought he was standing on its foundation like it had been quarried and taken away. [03:08] And rather than that, it turns out he was most likely standing on the roof of the top layer, like 10 meters below the ground. That is so nuts. He never got quite in. But then the Madahar expedition happened, I think, in the mid-2017 or 2015. There was an expedition run by a guy named Louis de Cordia in partnership with the Egyptian government. They used ground-penetrating radar sonic techniques, well-established subsurface techniques,

[03:33] And they found it. They found these massive cyclopean walls that were meters thick. It was a labyrinthian structure. It's well verified. It's below the water table level of what's on that site now. So you have water table walls. [03:45] sort of five metres below the surface, the labyrinth starts at nine, ten metres. [03:50] And there was some controversy around that report because it was buried. So he found it. They never published the report. It was squashed by Dahi Hawass. This is according to Louis de Courtey. He threatened – [04:03] him and his team with national security sanctions if they talked about it they it just was put away he waited a few years he finally released the report it's like holy holy shit we found the labyrinth and then this then spurred some other companies to use some of these new space-based scanning techniques there's been at least two that have been done very different techniques but they found the same thing they found that there is in fact a massive underground structure at this place called Hawara it goes much deeper than what you could reach with those ground penetrating radar [04:33] 70 metres below the ground, there's multiple levels, three or four levels. [04:37] And they correlate. So one scans a statistical model. Another one is a that uses high frequency photography along with, I think, seismic data. Very similar to the Doppler tomography work that's being done by the Italians at places like the Giza Plateau now. And they both correlate. Yes, there's a big structure. But one of the most interesting things. [04:56] facts that came out of this scan was it seems like in this massive central atrium that's that's this one big giant open room 40 50 meters long that connects to all of these levels there seems to be this unidentified metallic object that's freestanding in this room it's about 40 meters long and it seems to be tic-tac shaped is what is what this report said so it's a fucking ufo it's a ufo in egypt yeah i don't know i mean could you tantalizing could you imagine that

[05:25] Can you imagine if they get in there and they really do find a recovered spacecraft? [05:31] What do we do then? Because if this is a public excavation – that's the question. We would have to bring in the seals. We need to lock that place down. Maybe we need to occupy Egypt just to figure out how to fucking get this done. Occupy Hawara. Let's just – just Hawara. You'd have to occupy the whole country. You'd have to bribe them, something, give them money. Whatever you've got to do. If I was a president, that would be my number one priority. [05:55] I mean, yeah, it has the potential. I think there's been a little bit more of this from Egypt. I guess the establishment there, they seem a little more willing to engage in some of the mystery. I genuinely do think that discoveries like these can only help and boost tourists. What they want is to bring people in. It will bring way more. Could you imagine if they actually figured out a way to drain all the water out of the Labyrinth? They give you a tour and show you the spaceship. How much are you paying to see this spaceship? [06:25] ton of money to go see that spaceship. That's a special permission. That's the way we do. They're very good at that. There's a lot of places you can now go in Egypt that are these special permissions. It's thousands of dollars, but we go. They would make so much money. They could charge like 10 grand. They could charge like a lot of money just to go look at the spaceship. It would be like Mecca. Like Mecca for UFO dorks. It would be insane. [06:49] Well, the guy did say too, it didn't seem like any metal that he'd

[06:55] what type of metal it was because it's alien right it's element 114 for sure it's alien it's made of that same stuff that comet's made out of the ai atlas oh yeah three the three-eye atlas the whatever it is the thing that's off-gassing some nickel nickel alloy or something it's a giant nickel the size of manhattan it's yes that's that's jetting towards the sun although they didn't didn't nasa came in they think they released their images i think recently i can't there's some there's some images that came out and said oh the comet's doing this and doing that [07:25] but it definitely seems to be a comet unless you ask Avi Loeb and he's like anything can be a spaceship he's got a point he does we don't know what one would look like we've not seen it's a small sample size as it is for interstellar objects we have three to compare but two of them have been really fucking weird I think the point we're getting at is and this is the point of all these conversations is that there's some stuff that is yet to be discovered that has previously been discovered that might be [07:55] It might blow the dam down on all this stuff to the point where, like, okay, whatever you think happened here, a lot more happened, and it seems way crazier. If the stuff underneath the Giza Plateau was correct, and if the stuff – which is like, what? And if the labyrinth – if they can show you that this – not only was Herodotus depicting an actual place, but we can show it to you, and it's preserved, and it's been under the water for – This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills.

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[09:59] best friends something every dog owner wants the answer to that is yes obviously so try the farmer's dog today and get 50 off your first box of fresh healthy food [10:12] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. [10:21] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S., and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. [10:51] to get $200 in rewards within 21 days. That's CodeRogan in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. [11:16] 50 years. Yeah, it would be amazing. And yes, I think some of these things would knock down... Everything. It's a house of cards, right? I think there are... [11:27] There are elements of that that are in – that are obvious – I mean not obvious, but people can explore them and it starts to knock down the house of cards. It's how people end up with this – just looking at the contradictions in ancient Egypt, but there are other examples of –

[11:42] what I would say, like these things like the Matahar expedition that have been discovered, but then sort of covered up and kept secret. Right. And a lot of them have to do with, you have the same tie-in with these ancient stories and... [11:54] And accounts from history, not just from the Roman and Greek people. [11:59] uh his uh historiators but also the arab stories like al-masudi for example the herodotus of the arabs they called him you know he talked he talked about tales of these tunnels and chambers beneath the sphinx that there were uh there were rooms beneath the sphinx that then led out to like three different tunnels you have a number of other arab historians from as far back as like 600 ad that have stories of of getting into the pyramids and then getting lost in tunnels and chambers [12:29] like the Hall of Records, right? The people like Edgar Cayce, the American psychic in the 1940s who – [12:37] Have you heard of Edgar Cayce? Yes. So he would fall into these trance-like states, and he'd have these visions. He's called the sleeping prophet, they would call him, or he's like one of the Americans' psychic. And it wasn't just about things around Egypt. He did prophesize and talk about locations for three halls of records, which were these Atlantean... [12:58] um, caches of information like a pre-Diluvian civilization. He did call it Atlantis. But he would also have these predictions about the stock market and a lot of people made a lot of money based on his predictions and that led to the... He was really good at it? Oh yeah, yeah. So apparently he went, I mean whether he was, I don't know. I mean I have... Because that's always the question when it comes to like psychics. If you were a real psychic why wouldn't you make all the money in the world from the stock market? Well, it did happen. There was a lot of people who made a lot of money and he did evidently too as well. And...

[13:28] So that led to the formation of something called the Edgar Cayce Foundation or the ARE, the Association for Research and Enlightenment is the name of them. They're still going strong today. And they've been looking to try and find his... [13:43] Halls of Records, and they've been trying to verify Casey's predictions. One in particular that they have been chasing down is the famous Hall of Records, which he said was beneath the paws of the Sphinx. So there's not – the stories of this Hall of Records and these rooms beneath the Sphinx go back – [14:00] Thousands of years. Like, I mean, not just the Arabs, but also Herodotus and these other guys also talked about [14:06] that whole area the sphinx and everything else being vastly more ancient even than the pyramids but there was some work done that that then [14:16] that happened in recent times, like in the 1990s. Well, there's been a search going on since the... [14:21] early 70s that the ARE has been involved in and a lot of this is quite secretive none of it a lot of this has never really come to light but there's some until very recently in fact there's been some footage that came up that showed that there are in fact tunnels beneath the sphinx that may well have been explored we're not quite sure but it's an interesting story so [14:38] It does involve Mark Lehner and Zahi Hawass, who are the authoritative figures involved in Egypt. Are they bottlenecking this as well? Do I have to go give them a hug? Maybe. Come on, guys. Join us. Allegedly. We'll blow you up. We'll make you so much more popular. We'll help. We'll get you more tourism. And I think the current guys that have been running the Department of Antiquities are embracing a little bit of that idea, but I do think there's been a little bit of gatekeeping that's happened.

[15:08] thing. I agree. And I think when you are an academic or you are a person that's in a position of power like Zahi is, and you've been running things for so long, and this new thing comes along, it's very threatening. And when there's a lot of movement and momentum behind it, it's very threatening. But that thing will just embrace you. If you say, oh my goodness, look what we've learned. We've learned more new, amazing things about, wait for it, Egyptians. [15:38] It is older versions This is why it's so dumb It's like you're just You are only allowing part of the narrative To go through about how magnificent this culture is It's already the most magnificent culture In human civilization And in terms of history, when we look at it Nothing's anything like Egypt It's crazy And imagine it's bigger and crazier And richer It's just richer and a longer history in this place It's the most magical place in the world Yeah, it is unfortunate [16:08] just yesterday, in fact, the nature of establishment being to resist change, right? It's unfortunate that you know. And control. Control and to resist change. Maintain control, not lose control. That was the fear. The fear is if I am a self-professed expert with an institution behind me with a nice name, and then all of a sudden some fucking asshole with an Australian accent comes along, a tech guy who becomes a YouTuber because he watched some asshole's podcast when he was younger.

[16:38] Pretty much. That's it. But it's you and Graham and Jimmy Corsetti and all these other amazing people. And you guys are – you're showing the world that there's another side to a lot of these stories and it's a legitimate side. It's not just a legitimate – it's an unfathomable side. When you're looking at some of the stuff like Baalbek, you're looking at those stones. There's unfathomable things that no one is saying they're unfathomable. No one's saying. [17:08] We don't know. Everyone is saying, don't worry about it. We got it all figured out like that's crazy. That's I agree. I think embracing them. And I think I've made this this point before. But it's this is it's the nature of the discourse that's changed that has forced, I think, a stronger reaction from the establishment. Yeah. The the general public views things differently. Well, the general public's involved in the discussion. Now, if you go back more than 60, 70 years, I mean, [17:34] general public didn't have access to this information they were i mean these discussions only happened in in societies and in universities but but with the rise of firstly alternative authors and then the internet now everybody's got a chance to have a platform and a and and a set of ears to to hear this information and it becomes more popular guys like you have had a huge impact on the popularity of these topics and that's i think what is threatening always been popular the problem is [18:02] They haven't been legitimized. Like these ideas have always been popular. It's just nobody gets – it's like there's a food that you want that no one's serving. You know what I mean? That's what it's like. It's not like it wasn't popular. Like I'm not unique in my interest in ancient Egypt or in ancient civilizations. Everybody has – look at – when they ask men, like what do you think about ancient room? Guys think about ancient room all the time. It's just a normal part of being a person that lives in a current civilization wondering what it was like in the past.

[18:32] And then when you see something like Egypt, you're like... [18:34] None of this makes sense. No. There's massive contradictions. And I think – It seems so old. Well, it does. And I think what's made this – let's call it alternative perspective – [18:46] much more possible, even plausible, is all of the... [18:51] adjacent fields of science and work that is that is basically providing a plausible context for these ideas that there was an ancient lost civilization that is responsible for the roots of some of the things we see in these civilizations responsible for some of the technological enigmas that we find on these sites and that you know that's this is all stuff that's happened in recent years in adjacent fields of science things like the extension of the human timeline the evidence [19:21] The extension of the human timeline is huge. That's huge. Because, you know, we were just – Jesse Michaels and I were just having a conversation about this. I was like, imagine if you would not lose any cognitive abilities, no decline at all, and modern science figured out a way to let you live 1,000 years. Imagine if you're a person who's working on material sciences and you're doing like 3D printing. You get to live 1,000 years and you're a researcher and you still show up at work every day for 1,000 years or 10,000 years. [19:51] That sounds nuts, but it doesn't because if you can extend life, you can extend life for a very – especially with gene editing and a lot of the other crazy – who knows if they already figured that out back then. Data brokers are invading your privacy. They're recording everything you do online, and if you live in the U.S., they're selling your information to anyone and everyone who's willing to buy it. But thankfully, there's a way to stop all the tracking and spying, and that's with ExpressVPN.

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[22:02] what they would describe as pre-cataclysm or pre-flood civilisations, where people live for a long time. But you just, I mean, not just... [22:11] There's an extension of individual human timeline, but we also know that there's an extension of the human, like how long humans have been here. Right. Right? Because that's going back further and further all the time. We have... [22:22] We have skulls and fossil record evidence now where it's just slightly more than 300,000 years genetic and studies into teeth morphology make the possibility open to whatever, 700,000, 800,000 years there was a skull found. Yeah, I mean, I think that's more of a homo sapien clade skull, so it's like it may not be homo sapien exactly us. [22:42] It might be a variety, but that's a whole other aspect on this too is – [22:46] is that [22:46] where the last humans left, right? There were other types of humans that we know lived for, in some cases, a couple million years, that had similar, even bigger brain sizes than we did. We don't really know what their capabilities were. We only can work with ourselves. And then you combine that lengthening of time of like, okay, you have an intelligent social species that... [23:11] has the ability to build on knowledge of your ancestors. So one guy spends his life making a spear. The next guy spends his life perfecting how to throw it. It's just we have this... [23:22] unique ability to stand on this knowledge that's passed down from our direct ancestors and therefore build up our capability and inevitably leads towards civilization. And if you stress that way back in time and now you look at things like the climate history –

[23:37] And the... [23:38] the history of cataclysm on this planet, this possibility that these civilizations may have arisen and then been completely destroyed at some point over the last several hundred thousand years. [23:51] You can't just dismiss that. There's a strong possibility that it's possible. [23:55] It's possible. And in fact, there seems to be a lot of other contextual evidence to support it in origin tales, in stories, in the echoes of sacred geometry and advanced mathematics and knowledge of science. [24:08] the cosmos and also planetary dimensions and geodetic data, all this stuff that's encoded into these [24:16] into these monuments and into these stories and tales that we can't explain [24:21] how these so-called primitive civilizations like the Egyptians or the Sumerians knew this information yet it's there and it's encoded in their monuments and in their data. But we can't explain, even the Greeks, you can't explain the precision of some of the aspects of things like the pyramids. [24:40] Yeah, I mean, you just, and again, with the cataclysms that we know have happened, the Younger Dryas just being the most recent, but if you go back several hundred thousand years, you have these massive, you know, interglacial periods and glacial maximum periods, right, that these cycles that we go through where you have this big glaciation buildup, and then you have just, you know, these, what must have been catastrophic floods, and then interglacial periods. In fact, there was a... [25:05] a period called the Eolian period was about 120,000 years ago. That was very much like the Holocene that we're in today. In fact, it lasted longer than the Holocene has currently lasted. We've been in the Holocene maybe 10,000 years.

[25:17] um, [25:18] 10, 11,000 years. I think the Eolian period was more than 15 to 20,000 years where it was stable weather. [25:24] sea levels were like [25:26] three four meters higher than where they are today but it wasn't like this it wasn't like the place it wasn't like the height of you know glacial maximum where it's a difficult place to live it was it was a. [25:37] It was a calm period. I mean, the only reason our civilization... [25:41] is here today is because of the nice weather of the Holocene right we have warm weather [25:45] We haven't had, like... [25:48] massive catastrophes that have been like, you know, extinction level events kind of thing to get in our way and knock us back to the Stone Age. There was a similar period like that that lasted longer than we've been. [25:58] in this nice period, about 120,000 years ago. And if you consider after that, the cycles of glaciation and flooding, then particularly the Younger Dryas, there'd been just almost nothing left. It's just the stone in places that survived what happened afterwards. So I do, my... [26:15] range of possibilities for, okay, when did these artifacts originate? Like when did some of this architecture originally be built and, [26:24] It's not to me just 15,000 years ago, it could be 100, 200,000 years or even more. [26:31] Again, more contextual evidence to support that is things like the erosion that we can see on some of these sites. One of my favorite topics in the last couple of years has been looking at the erosion on the Giza Plateau. Yeah, I wanted to bring that up. And of some of the big monuments, in particular like the whole –

[26:47] middle pyramid complex on the Giza Plateau. Let's show some of the images that you used in some of your videos, because it's pretty... [26:54] It's pretty fascinating when you look at it. It's kind of undeniable. It is and what's fun about this is too is that we don't have to guess, right? We know how long it takes. Studies have been done about like limestone erosion. Turns out there's... [27:09] almost an endless number of conveniently dated limestone slabs all around the world. They're tombstones in cemeteries, right? So they get dated, they get cut, they get inscribed with the date when it was put up. And then so you can measure it and you can come back over whatever, decades, and measure erosion. And so how long does it take for this face of this limestone erosion to recede? This is the nutty stuff. Yeah. Because we're assuming that unless something happened to the outside of that, [27:39] smooth. Yeah, 100%, because there are still blocks that are protected. So a lot of this has been rebuilt. This is tricky to see. So you can actually see that the less eroded sections are actually modern restorations because this is so eroded... [27:52] that it's falling apart. Right. And this isn't even the exterior of the structure. This is the interior core masonry. All of this was also, for God knows how many thousands of years, encased in granite. It also points to a trend. It points to a pattern that when human beings find ancient things, they do renovations, try to keep them up. Yeah. Which is one of the things that's been, you know, over and over and over again. We've talked about that.

[28:22] working on the same exact ground. It is 100% a human tendency to renovate and restore [28:28] all of these, to reuse these sites. Even in a gross way, like what they do with the Sphinx, like the Paws, that's gross. It is, but we're renovating it and restoring it to use it as a tourist attraction. Like the Romans renovated it and restored it to use as a ceremonial center. But it's a very shitty version of the original. Yeah, I agree. And there's a lot of assumptions. You're assuming you knew the form of it. You're making your own form over the feet. I have a problem. Yes, that was one of my problems with they were talking about restoring the middle pyramid, [28:58] like the Menkara Pyramid, the small one. It's small. It's monstrous. But it has these granite casing stones, right? And the last of the top four or five courses are still there, but it was at least 15, 16 courses of granite. And there's all this granite, these massive granite blocks and rubble. [29:13] Mustafa Waziri, who was at the time the head of the Department of Antiquities, was talking about, we're going to rebuild it. [29:18] We're going to put it back together. And I know this, and I'm like, please no, because... What an asshole. Well, he did something cool, which was he excavated in front of it. He did show that the courses keep going down. [29:31] But then he's like, we're going to restore it. I'm like, dude, that would use concrete. It would be a facsimile of what it once was. Is he still around? No. He actually – because he said that – [29:41] There was a lot of international outcry for that very reason. And then, in fact, the government formed a tribunal to figure out what to do. The tribunal was headed by Zahiyahu As, and he lost his job. He's not in that. Don't restore pyramids, bro. That's crazy. Nobody wants to see the restored pyramids. You want to see what's left.

[30:00] Yes. Well, we can use our imaginations to... They are restoring a lot of things. I don't necessarily agree with this either. Things that are actively falling apart, sure, you need to buttress them. A lot of this wall. So this is part of the Middle Pyramid complex at Giza, and there's a lot of blocks like this. There are limestone blocks that are 11, 12 metres long, like 4 metres wide, you know, 200, 300 tonnes, that were stacked up on top of each other, and they eroded so greatly on the inside that they've actually fallen over. [30:28] At some point in antiquity, they've fallen off. And so they are trying to buttress and support things that are going to fall. I'm all for that. But, I mean... [30:38] There's a lot, just the amount of erosion that it takes for that to happen to blocks like this, of this pneumolytic limestone, which is a very hard form of limestone full of fossils. And it's... [30:49] you're talking like two, three feet in some places of erosion of limestone. And if you look at the studies, [30:55] that have been done into limestone erosion rates, and there's been several. They've studied them in coastal wave action environments where it's getting battered by waves. They put in rivers. They put limestone cubes on the top of one of the governmental buildings in D.C. and left it there and studied it over decades, and they're like, okay, it's tiny amounts. But in a normal weathering environment, this is assuming a lot more rainfall than what happens in Egypt. [31:20] which gets very little rainfall by the way, but a place like [31:23] Like Washington, D.C. or somewhere where you get like 40 inches of rain a year, something like that.

[31:32] of just normal weathering erosion to do two feet [31:36] of erosion like this more than 100,000 years. [31:39] Pfff. [31:40] And so, and that's, I think you can extend that because if, well, the thing is, maybe there was more rainfall here at some point. We know there was since about 4000 BC, the African humid period was in place. That's another big, I think, tell. [31:57] for what happened, particularly on the Giza plateau and the sites in Egypt [32:02] in that, you know, one of the things that always mystified me about the Sphinx is like... [32:08] It's spent so much time buried in sand up to its chest over the last several thousand years, more time than it hasn't been. We have to work pretty hard to keep the sand out of it now. In fact, there were multiple attempts to dig it out of the sand in the 1800s that failed. And then they just literally two or three years later, it's sort of buried up to its chest again. Seems like a design flaw. Why would you build this thing in a low spot in a windy desert? [32:31] where it's going to fill with sand. It's just, I don't think... Who's it attributed to again? Khafre. That's right. And then, wasn't there an inscription where Khafre said that if he could uncover the Sphinx, he would be the pharaoh? This is right. It's actually Thutmose IV. That's called the... There's a stelae in front of the... In the chest in there in the Sphinx. So Thutmose IV. About a thousand years later. So he was the one that was saying, if he uncovered it. So we knew it was buried in sand during the dynastic Egyptian civilization. That was what I was going to get to. Yes. [33:01] So during that time, no erosion.

[33:04] Well, this is a whole... Yes, so there's a whole other... So it's protected. Right. So this is another big issue with the wind and sand erosion. When you talk specifically about the Sphinx enclosure, I mean, this is... [33:16] This is one of the big [33:17] controversial I mean for the big one the face is in eroded exactly if it's wind and sand that's the only thing that's exposed and that's not as eroded been one of my major points for a long time it is to be fair it is it the yarding that the sedimentary layers of limestone it is a slightly harder form of limestone but still you're talking thousands and thousands of years where that the only thing above [33:39] The sand level was basically the face, and they explain all of this deep erosion on the body of the Sphinx and the Sphinx enclosure to wind and sand. I know, obviously, Robert Shock is a different interpretation, but yes, you would see erosion on that, but you just don't. I think the most plausible explanation for that Sphinx is that, yes, the face was recarved in the dynastic period. It could have been by Khafra. [34:09] but the Sphinx was already buried in sand at his... [34:12] time um what wow the attribute the attribution to kufra comes from two main sources one is its position so where the sphinx is you have the middle pyramid you have the causeway that runs down and you have the middle pyramid you have the pyramid temple the complex where we were seeing that erosion you have this massive causeway that runs down to then the valley temple which is this you know very famous massive megalithic structure and right next to the valley temple is the sphinx and in front of that is the sphinx temple so they they sort of attribute it and make it well it's

[34:42] of the middle pyramid complex. The other attribution comes from what's been written on that dream stele between [34:48] in the legs of the Sphinx at its chest. It does say Khafra on there, but there's a lot of... [34:55] It's a controversial statement to say that that means Khafre built it. There were several Egyptologists... [35:02] who had different, and this is back in the, you know, [35:04] Early 1900s, they had different interpretations for what that said. What they believe it said was Kufra was trying to do what his ancestors had done before, or that Thutmose was trying to do what his ancestors had done before, and Kufra is mentioned there, in terms of dig it out of the sand and become king. [35:24] like excavate it from the sand that's the move that everybody goes through well it's also i think it's proper it could be a great explanation for that dream start it could also just be like governmental propaganda right so he could be you could put that in there and say see i'm divinely ordained to be king because i dug this out of the sand just in the interest yeah just the interest of keeping this standalone please explain to people the whole uh deal with dr robert shock from boston university and the water erosion yes i know and if you've heard this before i'm sorry i [35:54] The water. Let's talk about Service Titan. Over 10,000 contractors already run their businesses on Service Titan. Now they're building an AI trained on real trades workflows. This isn't generic AI. This is AI built specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical and more. It's booking calls, helping run your back office and growing your revenue automatically.

[36:24] to figure out AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. Learn more at servicetitan.ai. [36:35] This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. One thing you probably don't think about when you're planning the perfect summer getaway is protecting your home. But if disaster strikes, you want to be prepared. Even better, if it can be stopped before it happens. So check out SimpliSafe. They're the smarter option when it comes to home security because their systems help prevent and stop crime in real time before it starts. There's also no long-term contracts and no technician appointments. [37:05] system and set it up in one afternoon by yourself or even sooner. It's one of many reasons why millions of people continue to trust and use SimpliSafe. Everyone deserves to have peace of mind, which is why I'm happy to partner with SimpliSafe again and offer an exclusive discount. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com slash rogan. That's [37:35] erosion that appears to be thousands of years of rainfall. Yeah, it's actually good background context because it does apply to not only the Sphinx, it's the most... [37:43] famous example I think and well-known example of of a of again an adjacent field of science coming in and challenging some of the doctrine that's been around Egyptology but it was actually Swala de Lubitz who originally I think proposed that his work was followed up by John Anthony West who then brought Dr Robert Schock who's a who's a professor of geology at Boston University to the Sphinx this was I believe late 80s early 90s

[38:09] And he went and looked at the erosional path. So the Sphinx sits inside an enclosure. It's carved from bedrock. So it was originally what you'd call a yardang, which is like a limestone outcropping. And so they cut down in this big enclosure and they cut the floor. And then they sort of shaped the Sphinx from this natural outcropping of bedrock. So you had, and we know this because the structure next to the Sphinx or in front of it called the Sphinx Temple is actually, you can line up the sedimentary layers of the blocks that are in there from the Sphinx enclosure. [38:39] blocks taken from here. [38:40] So this is all predictably sort of cut walls, and the Sphinx would have been nicely finished when it was. And he looked at these patterns. If you go there today, I think I have pictures of the walls of the Sphinx enclosure in there. And it's just these deeply eroded vertical channels. [38:55] The Sphinx body's harder to tell because it's been restored so many times. The ancient Egyptians restored it. The Romans restored it. We restored it a couple of different times. Assholes. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. But the nice thing is the walls of the enclosure really haven't been touched. [39:11] So you can see the natural erosive patterns, and he looked at that and went, that's rainfall erosion. But not just some rainfall erosion, literally the result of thousands of years. The only way you would get these patterns in the stone is thousands of years of rainfall erosion. [39:26] Obviously, Giza's a really, really dry. I mean, Egypt's a really dry place these days. You have to go back to time periods pre-4000 BC when the Sahara was a savannah. [39:37] It was grasslands with lake basins and river systems,

[39:42] And it had a lot more rain. You didn't have this annual flood [39:45] um you know uh cycle that you have now it's it was like a lot more rainfall it was much more verdant and green the geyser plateau would have been green which makes sense that that's why they would settle there in the first place exactly yeah why you when they didn't build in a desert i mean you wouldn't because it would fill up with sand it also makes sense why they would flourish because they had so much resources because it was like so green and fertile right probably had plenty of plants plenty of animals well there's you know there's there's a really [40:15] But first, just to finish on the Sphinx erosion, so when Shock came out and said this, he really thought he was – [40:22] you know, moving the story forward, and he took it to an archaeological conference, and they literally laughed him out of the room, and they said, this is, you know, this is ridiculous. Like, where are the pot sherds, was I think Mark Laner's comment, saying, like, where's the evidence that something's at least 12,000 years old? Mocking. Mocking them, yeah. So he was... [40:38] He got a good taste of, I guess, the old boy network, the archaeologists on that day. But he's being very conservative in that dating also of saying, well, 12,000 years. It could well be tens of thousands of years. And in fact, it seems more likely to me based on the erosional evidence that we see not only in the Sphinx enclosure but elsewhere on the Giza Plateau.

[41:08] climate of dynastic Egypt as we know it from roughly 3000 BC till even now, because it's still eroding, right? But yeah, it could be vastly more ancient. I actually think there's something else that came out. [41:24] uh was it earlier this year i think it was much earlier this year or maybe late uh late last year but there was a study done that showed that during the african humid period so this period of time before the desert desertification of of egypt the sahara becoming a desert when it was green and there was more consistent rainfall there was obviously a lot more water in the nile as we call it it had different channels one of the things they discovered was that there was a branch of [41:54] branch and it was in places up to a kilometer most of a mile wide so it was quite an extensive branch but it turns out that all of these valley temples on all of these pyramid sites from Dashur and Saqqara, Abissir, Abu Ghraib, Giza all of those valley temples were built on the shores of [42:12] of this extinct branch of the Nile. [42:16] So it's like pyramids, when you look at a pyramid, it's not just a pyramid, there's a whole complex associated with it. There's a temple, there's a structure at the pyramid, there's a causeway, there's what they call valley temples down. And it's like, these were all built on the shorelines of this branch of... [42:34] the Nile that went basically disappeared somewhere between 4,000 and 3,500 BC, but it was in place for thousands and thousands of years before that. And today, if you go there and they say, well...

[42:46] You know, the Valley Temple, yep, they would ship the stones from Aswan and it'd be like three months of the year, it would flood enough where you can get a boat in. I mean, I've seen pictures. There are pictures of when that flood happened before they built the dam and stopped that process. And it's in some years, it's a puddle. Like it's there's not I mean, you're talking about boats that were carrying hundreds of tons of boats. [43:06] of granite. And only in a three-month period of year can you get them in there. There would have been many years where there's not even remotely enough water to get it anywhere near the Valley Temple. I don't think they even use boats. Oh, no, I don't either. It sounds crazy to say, but I think they had a technology that we haven't even begun to... I don't know. [43:25] mess with yet. Did logistical achievements of the ancient Egypt, of what is represented in ancient Egypt is like, like, [43:35] Nothing you can see anywhere. I mean, there's Baalbek – [43:38] And then there's [43:40] To me, the best example is the statue at Tannis. There's a statue. I mean, there's several of these thousand-plus-ton statues, like half a dozen of them. You get remnants of them. But there was one that was moved 1,000 kilometers, like 1,000 kilometers. And it would have been – it was a single-piece granite statue, easily 1,000 tons. Show that image, Jamie, if you would, please. I think it's giant objects in there or something. I mean, and this is Tannis in the Delta Aswan – [44:09] down here at the quarry. [44:12] I mean, downstream on the Nile, there's another example, the one at Karnak, that's the whole shoulder and arm of a composite quartzite, again,

[44:21] gigantic size of the statue of liberty basically like single piece granite solid statue i mean there's there's all these pieces that's a small one which is insane that's that yeah that's look at the people in the background and say that's a small one yeah it's only 200 tons i mean it's 250 maybe it's not you have them 10 times almost that size the crazy thing is also how beautiful it is oh like how symmetrical it is the workmanship [44:47] on these is astonishing and you can still feel like this is one of the the signs i think when you get to the finishing on some of these statues [44:54] That's a joint kneecap. [44:57] There's one with an arm and a shoulder sort of poking out that's a really good example. That's Balbeck. The point is, when you talk about how beautiful – like that one that's lying down, Jamie, there's a – [45:09] The back one? A couple? That one. Look at the finishing on that. How incredible. You see his nipple. You know what I mean? Thousands of years later, you see the detail on the headdress. And then you have to realize this was done... [45:26] With people that didn't have steel. Yeah, and you can – Supposedly. [45:29] Right. Later periods, like in the New Kingdom, they had some more iron, not necessarily steel. But you notice something else here. See that cartouche? [45:39] See how poor that is relative to the finishing of the face and the chest. So this is the other thing that happened. This is why no one's sort of like you don't get archaeologists saying, well, there's statues. [45:51] We don't know who made it. We know who made it because they put their name on it. That is literally Ramses II's cartouche right there. I recognize it anyway. That's awesome that you recognize that. If you come to Egypt, you'll recognize it too. That's so cool.

[46:05] Petrie called Ramses II the great usurper because he put his name on fucking everything. Oh, boy. He carved it in deep like this too. [46:21] re-badging some of this stuff. So they would find old things and they would put their name on it. They would claim it for themselves. I think it's the nature of... I mean, during that period in the New Kingdom, in the 19th dynasty... It's all I did this. All me. Yeah, it was the height of dynastic Egyptians, Egypt's power and wealth. So they had all of this... [46:43] Uh... [46:44] I think hubris and arrogance to make themselves one of the gods. And it's one of the – I think – [46:51] These statues, there's a lot to unpack in these because I also happen to think that when you look at these massive statues, you can't really explain with the capabilities of the dynastic Egyptians. I think it also explains their iconography because if they inherited – [47:06] these giant statues. [47:08] Like, those are the gods. Like, you're looking at this. Imagine the statue the size of the Statue of Liberty standing out in the desert, and it's just sitting there looking at you with this face. And the craftsmanship on these are amazing. Kind of see it here. You see how the eyeballs are like... [47:22] tilted down almost and it looks like a smile on the face from here but when you it's perspective when you stand beneath them and you look up at them they're looking at you [47:32] And it's not a smile. It's just like a straight line. It looks straight. They've shaped these faces for perspective as if you're viewing them from the ground. They're absolutely incredible. And there's also been studies done on some of these that show the faces are pretty much perfectly symmetrical. Yeah, that's crazy. Again, not something that you can achieve...

[47:51] or not something that's done in modern artwork the perfect symmetry that's not a it's not even a characteristic of a human face like we aren't like that our nostrils are different sizes and whatever but because we're hybrids we could be we just we're imperfect we're imperfect beings joe i think they made us i mean they made us i think something came here from somewhere else or something was already here [48:16] and did something with lower hominids. Have you read Lloyd Pye's work? I've heard of it, but I haven't read any of it. Everything you think you know is wrong? Fun lecture. Rest in peace, Lloyd. [48:28] And there's some interesting genetic evidence that I think suggests that as a possibility, a chromosomal difference between us and other mammals of our type. Almost like we've had these – the tellurides have been attached. We've been genetically engineered. Greg Braden talks about that. Yeah, we have some real strange characteristics for being on this planet. Like we die of exposure at 80 degrees in the shade. We can't look at the sun. You ever see dogs? You get a dog stare at the sun like this and you're like, what are you doing? I'm fine. [48:58] you do that i can't even see at night we have no benefit of the night vision yeah it's interesting also when they look at all these other versions of humans that they find almost all of them were more durable oh broomsticks to axe handles yeah but like it's multiple gaps of but isn't that kind of in the bible when doesn't the bible say the meek shall inherit the earth [49:18] Well, we're the meek when it comes to like... I think we're the meek. Yeah, we're just the meanest maybe. We're the meanest. We're the meanest and the trickiest because we had to be.

[49:26] Which is like all animals. When you're small, hyenas are fucking ruthless. Oh, yeah. The reason why they're ruthless is because lions are bigger. They had to figure it out. They had to just be fucking mean and nasty. [49:39] And I think [49:41] I think we probably wiped out or interbred with everything that wasn't us. And that's a wrap. Sorry. Sorry your big bones don't work on arrows. Yes. You dummies didn't figure out catapults yet. Guerrilla tactics. Yeah. Guerrilla tactics, technology. I mean, I think that's also probably one of the reasons why we're so obsessed with making better stuff, including weapons. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, I think so. I mean, there is – I don't rule out the – I mean, personally, in my opinion, I think there's a – [50:11] Yeah. [50:11] either via panspermia or [50:15] intervention theory like that where we've been there is a huge mystery as to as to both our species and then how life itself [50:23] kind of kicked off. Like that's, even panspermia is like, [50:26] kicking the can down the road problem. Like how do you how does DNA have because it's one of the most interesting things to me is like DNA as a technology is [50:33] has never changed, right? So from single cell organisms right down through to us, the way life is expressed as a technology, how it expresses life has changed, but DNA... [50:46] I don't think has changed. Like, it's like this one way that life expresses itself and how it forms is like the actual origins of life. It's DOS. [50:54] It is the horse, human operating system, life operating system, something like that. What is your take on those tridactyl mummy things?

[51:05] I don't know. I think there's – Did you see Jesse Michaels' episode on it? Yeah, not all of it. I've seen some of it. Or the scans. You see the scans? I've seen the scans. Yeah, I saw some of it. I've seen a lot of the information. I don't want to get tricked. So I'm like – but Jesse said that seeing them in person – I just talked to him about it. He said it was otherworldly. He said it was – [51:26] incredibly strange. Like, [51:28] very, very surreal seeing them in person because it really does feel like it's a different species, like you're looking at some different species. [51:37] My take on that stuff is, honestly, it's like... [51:41] Sure. To me, the whole alien... [51:45] other life in the universe was settled I mean it's a mathematical certainty like I just the Kepler mission showed it like [51:53] It's a mathematical certainty that life has to exist. [51:56] In other places on the planet. In some form. In some form. And then you multiply that out across the span of space and time. Is it possible that we're being visited? Is there something to these phenomena? Yes. I think so. [52:10] I'm skeptical that we'll ever really... I hope maybe my lifetime will know, but I'm... [52:16] Would it change what I'm doing if we had that realization? Not particularly, I don't think. It's just like we could be part of the Galactic Federation. I'd be like, oh, that's cool. [52:24] I think it'll give additional perspective. Like, let's just go way out there and put that fucking tinfoil hat on tight. If they open up the labyrinth, if they figure out a way to drain the water, and they do find out that that 40-meter-long metallic thing is something from another place. Interdimensional. Something from another place. Right, yeah. Or maybe break up civilization. You know, there's a lot of people that think that there were, like, there's us, and then there's Neanderthals, right? And then there's...

[52:54] Okay. They all coexisted at one point in time. What if this thing coexisted with us as well? And this is a different version of what we will eventually be. Just like if – let's imagine human beings. We maintain a presence on this earth for the next 30 million years. Let's just imagine that. [53:13] Could be crazy, but it's happened before with crocodiles. If we did... [53:17] What would chimpanzees be like 30 million years from now? Evolution wouldn't stop, right? Right, it's not going to stop. They're already using tools, right? There's speculation. I mean, there's various scientists that believe that you can make an argument that many primates are in the Stone Age. [53:33] That they've entered into the Stone Age. So let's assume that this keeps moving in that general direction without our intervention, which I'm assuming some foreign countries probably would engage in that. And one of them might be America. [53:49] Secretly? Look, if we're doing this gain-of-function research on viruses that wind up killing a million people, you don't think that we're going to – there's some sort of a – look, there was talk during the – I believe it was World War II. [54:03] Russia was – there was talk of some sort of a hybrid between a human being and a chimpanzee, trying to devise that for soldiers. [54:14] Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Real. Yeah. Yeah. There's some very strange and interesting experiments that happened. So what if those little fuckers kept going? What are those little fuckers are like the the OGs like they're us?

[54:29] Like a million years from now. And what we are, you know, the chimps are... [54:34] A million years later, that's what we are right now currently. They are what we're going to be. Yeah. [54:39] And then they went, fuck it, we're going to the ocean. [54:42] Right, well, fuck, right. Yes. That's a possibility. In fact, the breakaway civilization concept's not a... [54:49] new one either like there's there a lot of ancient cultures looked at places like even the moon as a as a refuge and [54:56] they would call it a refuge. Like, that's a whole other theory. Like, what's going on with the moon? Is there something happening up there? Was there something that happened with it in the past? Right. Yeah. [55:06] Yeah, I mean, to me, all of these things are completely plausible. Like, I just – I don't – I – [55:14] tridactyls or the UFO phenomena. This could have been going on for a long, long time. I certainly would include... [55:25] some sort of [55:27] otherworldly craft as potentially one of the explanations for what that thing is beneath the ground at... [55:32] at the labyrinth. Well, even if it's not another worldly craft, whatever the fuck was going on where someone could make... [55:38] A 40-meter-long metallic thing thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago. Forty meters is half of a damn football field. Yeah, it's big. That's big. And stick it underground for some reason. In a corridor or in a huge atrium? Okay. Yeah. Like, what? All bets are off. What those Italian scientists are saying is underneath the Giza Plateau. Yeah. All bets are off. You're looking at something that is, like, as kooky as the pyramids are, that's the tip of the iceberg. True.

[56:08] The Labyrinth was so interesting because, you know, their announcements around what these, you know, 800-metre shafts and massive cubes kilometers deep under the plateau kind of came out of nowhere. But there are these accounts for these other places like the Labyrinth where there's some… [56:25] like historical legitimacy to them, like there's been accounts of them. Although, you know, over time... [56:31] What they're talking about beneath the Giza Plateau, [56:35] Maybe not to the full extent of what they're saying. I'm still having trouble with that. But there's certainly a lot more... [56:42] We know there's a lot more down there, right, that we, at least the public, has never discovered. [56:48] We know that there are, so beneath the bottom of the Osiris shaft for example, we know that there are further tunnels that go off from there, that go underneath it, the Osiris shaft. [56:57] for people who don't know, is one of the... [57:00] It's like a, there's three passages, like three rooms, and it goes down a little over a hundred feet or so. [57:06] Beneath the ground, beneath the causeway on the middle pyramid complex, you go down this big ladder, you go into one room, you go down another ladder, there's a bigger room with boxes in it, and you go down a further ladder. [57:16] to the bottom room, which also has boxes in it. Today, it's the water tables way up high. But... [57:22] We know in the past, this is one of the things that has recently come to light, is that down there in the bottom in the 1990s, [57:29] That was scanned with ground penetrating radar. [57:32] at the bottom level, and they found, yep, there are actually, like... [57:36] four-meter-long, eight-feet-high tunnels with domed ceilings below that even further, that nobody, as far as we know, have ever explored. They're also...

[57:46] tunnels leading off from that bottom level that head off towards the Sphinx and head off towards the pyramid. [57:52] And, in fact, they fork because there was a little-known... [57:56] exploration done by a team of Japanese scientists in the early 2000s that got like a camera on a long pole and they shoved it down through the mud and they stuffed it about 20 metres into one of these tunnels and they found these man-made structures that... [58:09] like tunnels, and it forks, and it actually forks off, and one seems to head towards the Great Pyramid, and one keeps going up towards Khafra. So there's tons of stuff below there. And, in fact, if you ever go to the Giza Plateau, [58:21] At that causeway, if you're heading up towards the middle pyramid, you've got the Osiris shaft on the left, but on the right you have 10 of these massive shafts that we don't really know how deep they are or whether or not they've ever been fully excavated, but they just go way down into the ground. [58:37] So this could be like... [58:40] It's like the very top layer of things that are being claimed by the Italian scientists and their scans. [58:46] But there was... [58:48] We know that these tunnels extend. [58:50] down to beneath the sphinx for example like there's long been rumored that there's a a tunnel an entrance at the end at the back of the sphinx in fact if you go there there's a little box and a little hole it doesn't go anywhere i've stuck a camera in there and had a look but this is what happened in the the 1990s so so you know john anthony west i'm sure you've seen the mysteries of the sphinx right super famous documentary yeah i know i know he has but you've seen his work oh yeah yeah wonderful documentary charlton heston yeah that's well

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[1:00:50] That research, I think in 1990, 1991, it came out, and John Nanty, he actually won an Emmy for Best Documentary, I think, for it. It was totally warranted. But so he, as part of that work, had a guy named Tom DeBecky. He was a ground-penetrating radar expert, and he did work around the Sphinx, and he found the existence of large, regular chambers. [1:01:11] Beneath the Sphinx. And then when that documentary came out, I mean, allegedly Zahi was incensed by it because it talked about Atlantis and it made the suggestion that this might be a hall of records that talked about Edgar Cayce. [1:01:25] And he then denied after that John Anthony West and Robert Schrock any permits to do any further work. But what's weird is that Zahe and Mark Lehner had this longstanding connection with the Edgar Cayce Foundation. [1:01:38] Which is like this weird dichotomy. It's like on the public facing, they decry anything Atlantis-based, but then on the private side, they seem to be enabling explorations by the ARE. And in fact, they've been enabling the ARE to do drilling experiments and other things at the Sphinx since the late 1970s. And there was an expedition project. [1:01:58] notorious one that no one ever knew what happened. It was called the Shaw Expedition. Dr. Joseph Shaw, Joseph Jehodo, and then a guy named Boris Saeed were running the Shaw Expedition. And Boris Saeed was a friend of John Anthony West. He was the executive producer for... [1:02:13] Mysteries of the Sphinx. And this happened in like 95 through about 97, 1997. And they partnered up with Zahi, gave them a five-year unlimited permit to do whatever they wanted.

[1:02:24] Up at the... [1:02:26] on the Giza Plateau. And one of the stories that came out of that was a story, so Boris Saeed, who unfortunately has also passed away, [1:02:34] since but he talked about filming Zahui what he said well we got to the back of the Sphinx and he said you know we want to make another documentary like the Mysteries of the Sphinx and he said well what if we open up a tunnel that no one's ever opened up before and he's like that that'd be great what sort of tunnel he said well a tunnel under the Sphinx. [1:02:49] and Boris said that'd be fantastic. So I actually filmed him going into the [1:02:53] Rump of the Sphinx. [1:02:55] standing down in there and saying, you know, the quote is something like even Indiana Jones wouldn't [1:02:59] believe that he was here. We're standing inside the body of the Sphinx. Nobody knows where this tunnel goes, but we're going to open it for the first time. And he's down... [1:03:08] in this space with basically a blocked up tunnel [1:03:11] Beneath the Sphinx. [1:03:13] And [1:03:14] He filmed all of this, but then this footage all disappeared. So during the expedition, it was kind of shut down. And then they got into a legal dispute, like Boris Saeed and Joseph Shaw got into this battle. The footage was never seen, but he went on Art Bell. [1:03:28] in the late 90s and talked about it. And we're like, God damn. So this, you know, they also talked about this stuff at the OSIRIS shaft. They did that ground penetrating radar work. They did sonic experiments in the Great Pyramid. There's a lot that happened at the Shaw Expedition run by the Edgar Cayce. It was, they're all ARE members. Like, and the stated goal of Joseph Shaw was always to find the Hall of Records, right? Um... [1:03:48] I mean, this all continued into the 2000s, too, with that organisation. But there was all this tantalising mystery of this footage. Like, where the fuck is this footage? Apparently, the Department of Justice had a copy of it because there was this lawsuit that was going on.

[1:04:03] And nobody knew. So it's kind of out there. And then it was only like earlier this year it turns out that – so what happened – so Boris Saeed was sick with liver cancer, but he was trying to raise funds to make this documentary. So he put together this tape with some of this footage from this expedition, and he was selling VHS copies of it as a way to invest in this documentary – [1:04:24] And then a couple, like a year later, he just, that's when he passed away. So there's been a handful of these VHS tapes out there in random homes from the [1:04:33] mid to late 90s, just sitting away with this tape. And then eventually someone this year actually digitized it, put it up on YouTube as an unlisted video. [1:04:42] I found out about it, and so all of a sudden now we actually have this footage. We have Dahi going into the Sphinx at the back saying these words. Yeah. Jamie, if you pull up my – I think it's the latest or the couple latest videos about the rare footage found from the Sphinx. It opens with that footage. Dude, thank God you're out there. I'm so excited you do this. It means so much to me that you do this. I love doing it. I know you do. This is fascinating. [1:05:12] footage for [1:05:13] years and years and and i'm like oh my god somebody found it yeah this is it here so there's zahi yeah [1:05:21] So he's going into this tunnel. Yeah, so this still exists, but then this is where he is now doesn't. What happened? Well, the story gets more intriguing. [1:05:31] So, yeah, this is him saying the line, saying, we've never opened this tunnel before. We're in the body of the Sphinx, and we're going to figure out where it goes.

[1:05:38] So... [1:05:41] Yeah, so after that, so Boris, they filmed that. This is the early days. So, yeah, I'm walking around the back here. I think I poked my camera in there, but I talk about it later on. It's... [1:05:52] So Boris Saeed, who had filmed this with Zahi, he talks to them about let's make a contract, let's have Zahi open the tunnel, we'll make the documentary about him opening this tunnel and we're going to show it to the world. And they talked about it, he went back to New York and he never heard from them again. [1:06:06] They never mentioned his contract, nothing. He never had any further contact with Zahi about it. [1:06:11] And then funny thing happens in Egypt about, I don't know, eight, nine months later. And this is as reported by Robert Boval and Graham Hancock in their book, Heaven's Mirror. And also I found it in the Arabic publications, but about eight months. [1:06:25] I think it was six to eight months later, Zahi makes an announcement in... [1:06:29] Al-Aram and these Egyptian publications in Arabic that says, [1:06:33] I've made this incredible discovery. [1:06:35] I've discovered tunnels and chambers beneath the Giza Plateau. [1:06:38] that's going to change everything we know about... [1:06:41] the ancient Egyptians and the pyramids, and he talked about finding three tunnels. [1:06:46] One. [1:06:46] that was like on the north, one on the south, and then one that was yet to be determined where it went. [1:06:52] And he made this announcement and then... [1:06:54] Never said another word about it ever again. [1:06:57] Whoa. And this is just in the Arabic papers. And here's the funny thing. But it could be because there's nothing there? Yeah. [1:07:08] I suspect something else. I suspect that...

[1:07:11] that even if there was nothing there, he would have stuck a camera down and looked at it. I think it's more likely that, yeah, they found something that might have upset the apple cart and it doesn't. [1:07:22] uh... because it doesn't get a gen if they are sitting on information i think [1:07:28] You think I guess I yeah, I do. I think there's been plenty of excavations and discoveries that I think were inconvenient for one reason or the other that have probably never seen the light of day. That's a crime against humanity. A little bit. I think so. I mean, it's you know, the funny thing that he's what he said to when he's when I read that comment he makes about three tunnels. That's that's. [1:07:50] That's what Al Adresi and... [1:07:53] uh elmas elmasadi said as well like this these herodotus of the arabs like six to eight hundred um ad when they went they described the same damn the three tunnels like chambers and rooms it's it's like lining up with these same as the labyrinth like it's lining up with these historical accounts and then it's just you don't hear another word about it and when you go to the sphinx today and [1:08:14] you finally pop that little [1:08:15] box off its butt. The whole thing's been backfilled. [1:08:19] Like the whole – where you see that camera where Zahi was standing, that steel beam's still there, but where his head level is, where he's standing, hey, this tunnel goes, it's like the dirt level's here now. Like it's all been backfilled. That's so crazy. Yeah. Why would you do that if there wasn't something in there? You would only do it if there's something in there unless it caved in. Yeah. To be honest, it's my concern also with the Great Pyramid and the chamber there is that –

[1:08:46] First of all, I have my suspicions that they may well have already taken a peek with an endoscopic camera into that hidden void. So this is, you know, the ScanPyramid project. Suspicion based on anything in particular? No, no. I just, no, just my experience with... [1:08:59] How they do things. Yes. So there's always... [1:09:03] I mean, there's very little transparency when it comes to a lot of these digs and stuff. And this isn't just the Egypt. This is, I think, I mean, it's not a criticism. It's maybe more characteristic of archaeological digs everywhere. [1:09:17] The way this works is you might have to wait 20 or 30 years or a decade for... [1:09:22] information to come out because then it has to get perfect if someone has to publish a paper you know they sit on that information until that point or maybe it never sees the light of day i mean um because it's inconvenient well i i do i do think that i mean anything that's going to like seriously upset the apple cart like if you came out and and [1:09:42] found something that was, damn, we found the Hall of Records. We found this evidence that is incontrovertible that suggests that there was a predecessor culture there. [1:09:51] and a predecessor civilization to the ancient Egyptians. [1:09:55] I think there would be some long and hard thinking about whether or not we actually release that because it's going to make everybody look bad. You know what I mean? Like it upsets – Isn't it crazy though that make everybody look bad would be the motivation to keep one of the most important discoveries ever from the human race? I agree. Yes. Fucking nuts. It is. That we're even thinking about this. And I love your approach. I think you're absolutely right too. Is it even if these figures – all they have to do is embrace it.

[1:10:22] All they'd have to say is, look at what we learned. [1:10:25] and everyone would be like, that's amazing. It's still Egyptians. It's Egyptians that go back 30,000 years or whatever it is, or more. That's so crazy, but also... [1:10:35] wouldn't that [1:10:37] excite more people to be more interested? Wouldn't that increase the economy? Wouldn't that increase the tourism? It would increase everything. [1:10:44] Yes, it would. It would make everybody more excited about archaeology. [1:10:47] I think you've got to embrace the mystery. There was a trend towards squishing it for a while. There's no way you could know everything. [1:10:54] It's not possible, especially when you're finding these new things. It's clear you don't know everything. Yeah. If they're finding new things, you don't know everything. If there's a 40-meter-long metallic object in a labyrinth that's in a giant atrium that's under the fucking ground— [1:11:08] You don't know everything. Yeah, I think it's worth taking a look. Like, geez, you think? Yeah, I mean, let's at least take a look. Let's drill like a hole. Like, figure out, we know from the scan kind of where it is. Like, stick a borehole down and... We were talking before, you were saying that there might be a possibility of digging a tunnel under the water through into the bottom. Because the actual area where it is, is not in the water. That's so, the scans seem to indicate it is likely free of water, is the terminology I heard from the scan interpretations. [1:11:38] issue with the water at Hawara in the Labyrinth is the groundwater so it's this seepage that's coming in from the north and it's [1:11:46] So presumably at some point you do get to a form of bedrock that may well be impermeable. [1:11:51] And if it's sealed and you're cut into that structure, then yeah, you may well be free of water.

[1:11:56] Or it might be, you know, it seems like the groundwater. Well, hopefully they don't fuck up and let the water through the hole when they try to dig a tunnel and flood that too. For sure some of it's in the water. Like the upper levels of the labyrinth, so from the ground-penetrating radar scans at the Matterhar Expedition... [1:12:10] I mean, you have these granite blocks that are like three, four metres wide, and this huge labyrinthine structure. That's sitting in – I mean, I'm sure it's full of sediment too. It's not like – there may be some cavities and open. Everyone's like, can we dive on them? It's literally mud and sediment, a lot of it. And that's sitting in this sort of salty brackish groundwater that I suspect is not going to do great things to that granite if it's left for another 50, 100 years or more. So there is a pressure to – [1:12:37] to remediate this problem and i think to save what's down there uh the deeper layers however seem like there's a possibility that they're free of water i mean is there been has there been any proposal to do that is there any proposal to figure out a way to reroute the water so this is what i i talked about in the video there were some studies that started to happen to try and do that and then the guy who was running the study got thrown in jail for for talking about it and then nothing

[1:13:07] does it i'll have him back i'll mention it i would love to i would i i would love i mean i think it's a solvable problem though that's the thing we're gonna get zahi to do mushrooms that's what we have to do yeah we have to get him to just drop it all interesting cut the bullshit become the sun god yeah no i don't yeah just let everybody love you for doing that because they would if we just changed turned turned a new page yeah just said all right let's just let's go crazy i think [1:13:37] Open it up, baby. Let's go. Give me a hug. Open it up. Start digging. Yeah. Let's go. Let's sink some ball holes and get some pumps in there and get this water out of here. I mean – These are those moments where I wish I was Elon Musk because you want an engineer to get involved as well. You need all of that. Yeah. You need like Army Corps of Engineers, someone who's going to be able to figure out how to move water. Take a real big French drain, you know. Just figure it out. It can be done. It might take decades, but it can be done. I think it can be done. And the result – [1:14:07] would be insane. I think you could do it too in like a targeted [1:14:12] search. I think you could start in a small area where you know, do some more surveys too, more GPR, more surveys, more scans, and really narrow in on a section and then let's see if it's... [1:14:24] If what we're seeing on these scans is there, then... [1:14:28] maybe do the site. I have a feeling it's one of many. [1:14:31] I really do. Oh, no. Yeah. I have a feeling that whole area, that whole complex, you're going to go – [1:14:37] If they can really prove that there have been civilizations that have been there for 10, 20, 30,000 years, I think.

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[1:16:37] Zip Recruiter. It's going to reveal itself one layer of the onion at a time. Right. And it's today, it's like it is a symptom of the climate that we only really look in the Nile Valley, right? Because the dynastic Egyptians settled in the Nile Valley because when they started, it was a desert. [1:16:54] That was the habitable part. But if you open up the possibility that there's a precursor civilization that was existing in the millennia prior to that, now you've got the Sahara. You've got to figure out where the lakes, the river systems, the lake basins were. And there's very little of the Sahara that's fully – we're not looking under the sand there. We're developing new scanning techniques. Let's start looking there. [1:17:24] first in abydos and it's sitting on top of this aquifer it's like this big subterranean granite structure and i'm like i bet this is this was i think clearly some sort of functional thing and i bet there's a bunch more of these but we just don't know where they are because they're under the ground we just found this one was said he found it when he built his temple and he's like holy shit we found this giant granite subterranean structure let's turn the temple this way but yeah i think there's i think there's a strong possibility as well that there's a lot more of [1:17:54] Archaeologists suggest the same thing. The scope and scale of what is under the sand in Egypt, I mean, I think even most mainstream archaeologists will tell you like 70% of it's still as yet undiscovered, at least. That is so crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say when you look at what has been discovered.

[1:18:10] It's nothing quite like it. I mean, Luxor, what do they say? The stats around Luxor is like one-third of the world's antiquities in this one area, just at Luxor. And it's not even the Giza Plateau. That's just – that's upper Egypt down at Luxor with the West Bank and the Valley of the Kings and Karnak Temple. And it's astonishing. And they're still digging stuff up. There's a – [1:18:29] The Temple of Amenhotep, the second or third, is near, no, Colossal of Memnon, these giant 600, 700-ton statues are like the front door to it. And they're slowly excavating this monstrous temple behind it, and they keep finding these remnants of these colossal statues. I've heard rumors, just rumors, I'm going to Egypt like next week. Hopefully we can, I want to get a look at this. And I've heard rumors that they found like a hand from a statue that's even bigger than the biggest ones we've found so far. [1:18:59] It was one of the largest ever, which would be astonishing because who knows? I mean, that... [1:19:07] There's some evidence that they made stuff like that. I mean, we talk about 1,000 tons, and that's mind-boggling enough. But there's actually a quarry in Egypt called Minya. It's like the unfinished obelisk, right? It's like the unfinished obelisk, still attached. They never pulled it out, and it's 1,200 tons. But at Minya, it's like limestone, and they've cut these blocks out. They're still attached. They've made these blocks. And there's even an inscription, like a rough inscription of a seated obelisk. [1:19:31] like a seated figure on a throne, sort of drawn on this, as if that's what they were going for. But if you take the density of the limestone in the Minya region and you...

[1:19:42] calculate its volume it's in the realm of 5 000 tons oh my god yeah it's it's [1:19:49] Who knows what was there originally? I mean, I think it's baffling enough that we have this... [1:19:56] logistical achievements in that [1:19:59] Anything above really 300, 400 tons, Christ, above 100 tons over any distance is a massive challenge for anyone. I mean, us to move that sort of a load over the roads and things we have now, I mean, shit, even in Peru, you find similar... [1:20:16] logistical achievements. I just came back from five weeks in Peru. I want to talk about that. I don't have to pee so bad. Okay. So let's pause real quick and be right back. Sorry. Sorry about that, folks. And we're back. [1:20:26] Um... [1:20:27] Have you speculated why they wanted things so big? Or was it just that they had the ability, all of a sudden, at one point in time in their development? I mean, you can't make, to me, any argument that these giant statues are functional. They're clearly symbolic. It's almost like a challenge to history. It's a monument through history. I mean, there's some indication that... [1:20:54] Things like the pyramid, the Great Pyramid, are markers and... [1:20:58] you know, they're demonstrations of their knowledge and capability. We can talk about that in a minute. But there's – with the statues, it's – no, to me, it's just like, look at us. Look how mighty we are. It's like the same reason we – [1:21:11] I mean, why do we make Mount Rushmore? We make some big monuments. It's like to leave a monument or some sort of marker behind. I mean, the Sphinx, for example, could be a marker.

[1:21:20] In time, when you look at it in terms of the Great Cycle and the fact that it was likely a lion and it's facing due east, [1:21:28] So it could well be a marker for a particular moment during the processional cycle. Which could be either like 10,500 BC or 35,000 BC. Right, or plus 25,920 years. So it's each cycle of that. So this is the thing. I mean, the Sphinx, I mean, it's been talked about. Even, like, again, you go back to Diodorus Siculus and Strabo and Herodotus. They talked about the Sphinx being vastly older. They're hearing things about it being older. [1:21:58] the early [1:21:59] explorers for that region also mentioned it being 12 plus thousand years old it being this ancient monument and there's strong evidence to support that in that [1:22:08] I mean, you have statues of sphinxes. [1:22:10] that predate Khafra. [1:22:12] for example, so when he apparently built it, like there's already, we see statues and imitations of sphinxes, also lions, um, [1:22:21] before that time you have the what's called the inventory stelae or the stelae of khufu's daughter which was a statue that khufu being khafra's father it's a khufu great pyramid khafra middle middle pyramid uh this this this is rarely acknowledged but it tells the story of that that khufu was trying to repair the sphinx and dig it out of the sand he's [1:22:44] Khafra's father, so this could be older. But also the name, like the oldest name for the Sphinx is Vruti.

[1:22:51] And it's the two lions. It's Sekhmet and... What's the name of the other lion? I can't... I have it here. Um... [1:23:01] What is it? [1:23:04] I can't remember the name of the other lion god. But it literally means two lions and gate. So it's like this lion's gate. It's guarding a gate. But this is one of the oldest... [1:23:17] names for it. So if it was indeed a lion and it's facing due east, and we know that things like processional cycles, processional numerology, [1:23:27] is deeply embedded... [1:23:29] in many many cultures all around the world this is one of the other key bits of context that seems to point to a consolidated origin point for knowledge and data of the cosmos and of geodetic data but knowledge of the procession of the equinoxes is one of those which is the you know basically you mark this by what constellation is behind the rising sun on the vernal equinox facing east so as we look east today it's it's somewhere between the constellation of Pisces and [1:23:59] It's a cycle that... [1:24:01] denotes or is due to the Earth's wobble. So we have at least three motions of the planet. We have the rotation of the Earth, so 24-hour cycle. We have the orbit of the Earth around the sun, [1:24:15] 365 and a quarter days and then you have the processional wobble there's a couple more actually and that is and that is basically that the earth as it spins does this it describes this little like it's it's it's axis it describes a circle in space which changes the constellation it's it's a cycle that takes around 26,000 years 25,920 is the typical description for it and what that means is the backdrop of stars you know as we're looking at

[1:24:43] at any time is slowly changing. It changes only one degree... [1:24:48] every 72 years so if you're looking at the horizon like the width of your thumb and [1:24:53] over 72 years, basically relative to the sun, the constellations behind the sun shift. So today it's [1:25:01] Pisces and we're moving into the age of Aquarius and before Pisces [1:25:06] was the age of Aries, and before Aries was the age of Taurus. And you go back for another day to get to Leo the lion... [1:25:11] which is another, I mean, the symbology and certainly the dynastic Egyptians as well as many others had very similar constellations and names for all of these constellations that we do. So... [1:25:22] I think there's a good indication that Sphinx could be essentially a processional marker, talking about a specific time, which in our... [1:25:30] Current cycle would have been, I think, yeah, around 10,000-something BC, but you could potentially add a whole cycle onto that. [1:25:38] to go back another nearly 26,000 years. [1:25:42] Which is an interesting possibility. It's interesting, but it's also nuts. It's very nuts. It's nuts comparative to our conventional timeline. What is the conventional timeline for the acceptance of astrological signs? [1:25:57] Thank you. [1:25:57] Constellations, areas. I mean, there's no doubt about the – I mean, the processional cycle is an observable thing. But naming them like Cancer, Leo. I don't actually know. It goes back – it's very common –

[1:26:13] across multiple cultures one of the craziest things actually depicted on the the ceiling of the temple of dendera in ancient egypt the same constellations that we have pisces the fish [1:26:23] Ares the Ram. [1:26:25] you know, really over the line. What do you think is the oldest accepted, like if we put it into perplexity, what do you think is the oldest accepted? [1:26:32] I would suspect it's either the Egyptians or the Sumerians, because that's about as far back as written knowledge goes. I mean, it was the Sumerians followed by the Egyptians. I don't know what they're... [1:26:42] if the Sumerians had a zodiacal [1:26:45] acknowledgement but certainly the dynastic Egyptians did and that seems to have progressed from there down [1:26:50] Everyone. And the interesting thing... We have a sponsor, Perplexity, an AI sponsor. So clay tablets from Mesopotamia, Sumerian, later Babylonian in the late second millennium. B.C. give the oldest secure written constellation names, including the figures like the lion, the bull, and the scorpion. These early star lists such as Babylonian, three stars each catalogs, and later the M-U-L dot A-P-I-N tablets. What is that? [1:27:17] You know what that is? No. Systematically record stars and constellations and were compiled roughly between 1200 and 1000 BCE, drawing on an even older tradition. So it's at least 1000 BCE. Yeah, it says here that the iconography of star animals similar to these constellations appear on prehistoric seals, vases, and gaming boards from Mesopotamia may go back as far as 4000 BCE.

[1:27:47] the [1:27:47] The animal depictions on there may be showing constellations. I don't believe they're the typical zodiacal... [1:27:54] constellations. But it's [1:27:56] I mean, what's interesting is – [1:27:58] Let's see. Are they following Gobekli Tepe? [1:28:01] Let's see what perplexity thinks. [1:28:03] - No. [1:28:06] No clear universally accepted constellation names have been identified at Gobekli Tepe, but some carvings appear to depict animals in positions that may correspond to parts of later constellations such as Scorpius, Sagittarius, or Cygnus. Cygnus? [1:28:21] According to a minority of researchers, most archaeologists remain cautious. Yeah, minority being Martin Switman probably. [1:28:36] or named constellations. They're speculative. [1:28:39] But interesting... [1:28:40] Yeah. [1:28:41] Yeah, it's remarkable. I mean, and... [1:28:45] More so even just in those markers is one of the, I mean, for me, the... [1:28:50] It's sacred geometry and processional numerology that's encoded. I mean, this is Hamlet's mill. [1:28:56] what's in the book, Hamlet's Mill, that essentially shows you that a lot of the sacred geometry, which is like a numeral system or these sacred numbers that are repeated through geometry, time, distance, even cosmic cycles – [1:29:12] as we measure them and then they appear again and again [1:29:15] through ancient cultures um and in their origin stories and even in their architecture i mean the

[1:29:22] The Great Pyramid is probably the best example of it being – I'm sure you've heard that it's like a scale model of the northern hemisphere at a ratio of 43,200 to 1. [1:29:33] It's absolutely insane. And it encodes so much more knowledge when you consider it from that perspective than [1:29:39] knowledge that we can't explain, [1:29:42] through the dynastic Egyptians or by any capabilities that they had. It encodes geodetic data in terms of the very specific shape of the earth, it being an oblate spheroid, like it encodes that information in it. How so? [1:30:01] So 43,200 is an interesting number to start with just because – [1:30:06] The number of seconds in a day is 86,400, so in 12 hours of the day. [1:30:12] in like a it's the amount of sun like basically the the amount of time on a hemisphere or in half of a day in exactly 12 hours is 43,200 it's it's 432 is one of those numbers that shows up again and again and again and again so the great pyramid at a ratio of 43,200 [1:30:29] to one is essentially a scale model of the Northern Hemisphere. If you take the height of the Great Pyramid, [1:30:35] And this includes the socle that it sits on. But you take that height, you multiply it by 43,200, you get the polar radius of [1:30:41] of the Earth, so from the centre of the Earth to the North Pole [1:30:44] . [1:30:45] Almost exactly, within... [1:30:47] a couple hundred feet, and even more impressive... [1:30:50] is when you take the [1:30:52] perimeter length

[1:30:54] of the Great Pyramid, and you multiply that by 42,200, you get the equatorial circumference [1:31:00] of the earth. [1:31:02] within about 300 feet, which is super interesting because – [1:31:06] It's flexible. It changes. So as we've always known, there's been multiple surveys since the 1800s of the Great Pyramid, and once its base was cleared off and we got its perimeter length. And then we've also had surveys looking at, you know, how big is the Earth? [1:31:20] Aristotle is in like 500, 600 AD in Greece. He was the first one to give it a go by measuring sort of the angle of the shadow in two different places over a few years. And he got the circumference of the earth to in about 500 miles. That was as close as we got until – [1:31:36] Yeah, the 1800s and then the advent of modern satellite surveys in the 1970s and 1980s. And the funny thing is, is that the more advanced we got... [1:31:46] As we step closer and closer and right up to the modern satellite surveys, the closer the number came. [1:31:52] to what the Great Pyramid represents at this ratio of 43,200, right up to the point where it's like the most modern, I think, the... [1:32:01] The surveys done in the 80s are still the ones we use today looking at the... [1:32:05] The actual circumference of the Earth is within about 300 feet of the measure of the Great Pyramid, which makes – I mean that's within the margin of error. It's within the variability of the margin of the Earth, of the circumference of the Earth because you have like the moon and the sun on one side. It literally – you measure it every day. It's going to change about 200 or 300 feet.

[1:32:25] just because gravitational forces are pushing on the Earth. So that also means that what's interesting is if in two seconds of time, if you were standing on the equator... [1:32:35] then the Earth rotates precisely... [1:32:38] the length of the perimeter of the Great Pyramid. So in two seconds, it goes... [1:32:44] Basically, the Earth turns... [1:32:46] the same length as the perimeter length of the Great Pyramid. What's [1:32:51] Even crazier. And so you have this measure expressed in... [1:32:55] distance and in time, given it's this significant number that measures the amount of seconds in 12 hours, [1:33:03] It also encodes geodetic data, so the Earth isn't a perfect sphere, right? We deviate from... [1:33:09] being a perfect sphere because, and this is [1:33:11] Thank Christ, because it's like... [1:33:13] rotation, the oblate spheroid nature of the Earth, the spin, the... [1:33:21] Shit, I won't die. The spin motion of the earth, essentially, like the... [1:33:26] like a dryer, for some reason I can't think of the word, it's flattening our tops a little bit and we bulge a little bit at the centre around the equator, right? So it's like that [1:33:36] that spin force is making us bulge a bit. So what it means is that if you measure the Earth this way, like north to south around... [1:33:45] and then east to west. It's going to be slightly longer. [1:33:48] East to West. [1:33:50] I think it's something like 70 or 80 miles, no, 40 miles, I think is the difference, something like that. Maybe that's the radius difference. But I think, yeah, radius or diameter might be 30 or 40 miles difference. It is this slight equatorial bulge, and what it means is that...

[1:34:09] You know, when you draw latitude and longitude lines on the planet, and that latitude being north-south, longitude being east-west, if you get down to the equator, now obviously the shapes of them change as you go up towards the poles. [1:34:23] But the latitude lines are straight. I saw this recently. I don't know how accurate it is. It says it's accurate. That's earth without water? Without water. That's nuts. Yeah. [1:34:33] Rocky little ball, isn't it? Bro. Yeah. [1:34:36] That's crazy. [1:34:37] Yeah, some of those oceans are deep. [1:34:39] I don't know where that... Yeah, you think? Yeah. Jeez. That's cool. That's bananas. [1:34:44] That almost looks exaggerated to me, that a little bit. Wow. The most accurate model of Earth's shape accounting not only for its rotation but also for the distribution of the masses inside the planet, making the surface slightly uneven and deviating from a perfect sphere. Unlike a school globe, which depicts Earth as an ideal ball, the geoid resembles a slightly flattened at the poles and bulging at the equator potato with a height variations of to 100 meters due to the gravitational anomalies. [1:35:13] This shape arises from the center. Centrifugal, that's the word I was looking for. There it is. Force of the Earth's rotation, which inflates the equator by an additional 21 kilometers compared to the polar diameter. Yeah, yeah. [1:35:24] interesting... [1:35:25] Interestingly, the geoid is used in GPS navigation and geodesy to precisely measure elevations above sea levels as oceans... [1:35:36] Follow this uneven surface. Imagine if you shrank the earth to the size of a basketball, the geoid's irregularities would be smaller than the roughness of the orange skin. Wow. Of an orange skin, yet still impact our daily lives. Wow. Yeah, so it must be a little exaggerated because I think that's clearly rougher than it. This episode is brought to you by Blinds.com. Texas summers don't mess around with patio surfaces easily reaching 150 degrees.

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[1:37:40] Orange. That's clearly thicker than the roughness of an orange skin, but yes. [1:37:45] Yeah, it gives us an example. [1:37:49] Yeah, so we're a little bulgy around the middle, a little flatter on top. So when you get down to... [1:37:54] latitude and longitude at the equator, right? So at the equator, if you draw that cube, one degree of... [1:38:02] of latitude and one degree of longitude, it's not a perfect cube. Okay, so it's a little bit further east to west than it is north to south. So if you cut that down into like 60 seconds, [1:38:14] latitude and longitude it's a smaller little square but same proportions you have the same ratio and [1:38:21] if you actually take the [1:38:23] um, [1:38:24] the Great Pyramid. So there's the thing to understand about the Great Pyramid is that there's, it sits on a socle. I don't know if I've talked about this before, but so, you know, we know because we have casing stones, um, [1:38:35] We have that 51 degrees, 51 minutes, [1:38:38] angle of these casing stones so we were able to really act and we have a few of those still around the base from where they fell off. So from that we can determine the height and we also have this perimeter length using the casing stones. Pretty very accurately the survey and now those casing stones it doesn't sit direct on the bedrock. The pyramid actually sits on top of a 55 centimeter socle. [1:39:00] So it's this little platform that sticks out. [1:39:03] about this much, and it's 55 centimeters high, and it sticks out. So you have the casing stones, and you have this little socle that it sits on. So you have these two methods of...

[1:39:12] Measuring the pyramid, you can measure the perimeter length around the casing stones or you can measure the perimeter length around the socle. Socle's slightly larger. [1:39:21] And the funny thing is if you get down – [1:39:24] to one quarter of one second [1:39:28] of latitude and longitude, [1:39:30] At the equator... [1:39:32] the [1:39:33] Longitude is exactly within an inch or two, the perimeter length of the socle, and the latitude, the north-south, is the perimeter length of the socle. [1:39:44] the pyramid. [1:39:46] So it's encoding... [1:39:48] the geodetic shape of the earth... [1:39:50] The ratio of latitude to longitude is encoded incredibly accurately. [1:39:56] in these perimeter links on the pyramid. And it's just, that's just, it's just kind of mind boggling. Well, so this, this would be, this would be the skeptic reductionist answer to this stuff is that, right? You say, well, you're just playing with numbers. It's like, well, that it's, it's, [1:40:13] But the numbers are there. None of those things. Anyone can check that data for themselves, like the 43,200 to one ratio of the pyramid, the fact that that's the number of seconds in 12 hours of the day. There's so many. I mean, this, by the way, [redacted address]. The Kali Yuga is said to be 43,200 years old. The radius of the sun is 432,000 miles away. [1:40:38] Um, [1:40:39] The king's list from the Sumerians is a total of 43,200 people.

[1:40:45] Oh no, 432,000 years with one king reigning for 43,200 years. So this 432 is one of those... [1:40:52] one of those sacred geometry numbers that keeps turning up again and again. [1:40:55] But what's always been fascinating to me in the geodetic information encoded in the Great Pyramid is... [1:41:02] is like you have to understand the shape and size of the earth to get that ratio [1:41:07] so accurately... [1:41:08] embedded in that monument and we weren't able to do that. [1:41:13] basically until really recently with satellite servers, but we certainly weren't able to measure longitude [1:41:18] even until like the turn of the 18th century, like James Cook's second voyage of discovery. We couldn't measure, we couldn't accurately figure out where we were on those east to west [1:41:28] traverses like accurately reflecting longitude in the pyramid is is a it's it's astonishing it's one of those things that also relates to ancient maps having like accurate coastlines with longitude on them but [1:41:41] What seems clear is that somebody at some point in the past had very accurate knowledge. [1:41:48] not only of cosmic cycles, but also of the shape and size of the Earth itself. Like in terms of they surveyed it, they understood its shape. They understood the ratio. [1:41:58] of latitude to longitude on the planet and it's all encoded in this monument and it's just it's kind of scratching the surface on what's in the in you know encoded in their great pyramid but I mean the numbers are all there you can you can add these up have you ever had a debate with anybody that thinks that this is all coincidence and that you could take these numbers and just

[1:42:17] monkey around with them and make any kind of equation you want if you just draw arbitrary distances between certain things uh no not not because some people do believe that right yeah i mean so i think i think there's a difference between um when you talk about numbers versus ratios like it does once you get to ratios then it doesn't matter how you measure them like that's it's like the ratio it doesn't matter you measure them in mosquito dicks or inches or whatever right [1:42:47] whole system of measurement, how we measure time, the imperial system of measurement, where the mile comes from, all of that stuff does have these deep roots in sacred geometry and basically cosmic. And that's, again, I think all pointing towards a common... [1:43:01] system or a common set of knowledge that came from it. But I've not debated somebody about this. I don't know that you... [1:43:07] I mean, you can't really question the numbers, but there's some incredible – [1:43:13] just, I guess, coincidences that are in this whole system that do point towards, like, I mean, they get really crazy. So here's another one. [1:43:21] which I just, this one just pickles my noodle. It's so, [1:43:26] We know that – I've said this before. I think that the sun is – the moon's 400 times smaller than the sun, and the sun's 400 times further away, so you get this – that's how we get total solar eclipses. That's really nice. [1:43:38] There's also another sacred number encoded in their ratios relative to their diameters in the distance from Earth that's the same between the moon and the moon. [1:43:46] and the sun, and that's 108. So if you take the diameter of the moon

[1:43:50] at whatever it is, 2160 miles. [1:43:53] By the way, 2160 is also the length of a great month in the processional cycle. That's one twelfth of 25,920. But 2160 miles times 108, that gives you more or less the distance of the moon to the earth. So moon's... [1:44:09] uh yeah so so it's a the moon's diameter times 108 gives you the distance to the earth the sun's [1:44:16] um, [1:44:17] Which is 86,400 miles, which is the number of seconds in a 24-hour period. [1:44:24] Times that by 108. [1:44:25] And you get... [1:44:27] That's the distance of the sun from the earth. [1:44:29] So it's like that relationship between their diameter and their distance from the earth is exactly the same between the sun and the sun. [1:44:35] and the moon. [1:44:36] And it's 100 night. [1:44:37] So it's the lunar diameter over lunar distance equals solar diameter over solar distance. [1:44:44] And I mean... [1:44:46] What a coincidence. What a coincidence. Yeah, and it's 108. And by the way, there are temples in places like Cambodia that have 108 pillars, like 108 is another one of these sacred numbers that have been encoded into the way we measure stuff, the way we count for time. So it's this huge... [1:45:01] There's a huge sort of rabbit hole of sacred geometry and processional numerology that seems to point – [1:45:09] to some point in the past, someone having all of this understanding to create these systems and to measure things and to do so accurately to the point where the more accurate we get in our measurements, the closer we get to these measurements.

[1:45:22] the ratios and data reflected in his ancient structures. It's just, and you can't attribute that to these, the cultures that were on those, like the ancient Egyptians or the Greeks. It's like, [1:45:33] Where did this information come from and how come it's represented in cultures from... [1:45:37] you know, the Norse mythology through, you know, South American... [1:45:42] native indian myths to you know these numbers show up again and again as as was shown by by hamlet's mill this book that that basically this tome that put that information together and say well this all of it seems to point to this you know this this origin point of someone with this information and it's just it's one more of these contextual points when you combine it with the human timeline and climate and cataclysm and the all the endless other other contradictions [1:46:12] this concept that we've been advanced, significantly advanced, us or someone, [1:46:16] has [1:46:17] And they've left all these signs and signals and breadcrumbs for us to try and follow to figure out. [1:46:23] Whoa. Yeah. [1:46:25] Whoa. Yeah, the pyramid is cool. [1:46:29] It is just whoa. It is my favorite subject of all time. Yeah. The lost civilization subject, I think, is my favorite subject because it ties all of them together. [1:46:38] You know, in the mystery of the human origins. [1:46:43] All of it [1:46:45] Yeah, it's just – I think it's plausible. I think it's probable even that we've risen and have been wiped out. I mean –

[1:46:54] I think I was just saying I just spent [1:46:56] five weeks in Peru again. I just came back like 10 days ago. And... [1:47:00] I mean, that place more than anywhere else is both more mysterious and more obvious that there was something else going on a long time ago. More obvious. Yeah, more obvious. In the... [1:47:11] the delta between these technological levels. So in Egypt... [1:47:16] You know, you never want to underestimate what the dynastic Egyptians were capable of. They had this long civilization of 300, or sorry, 3,000 years, and they did some incredible work. So, you know, they have really good stonework. The lines can get a little blurred. I mean, you still see the difference. But in Peru, it's different, particularly in the Sacred Valley, places like Tiwanaku in Bolivia. But there you have these very distinct... [1:47:41] lines like in terms of technology and the stonework that and the layering of the stonework in that place today i mean typically mostly all attributed to the inca but the inca were really only around for like maybe 300 years maximum at their the inca empire was barely 100 years before the spanish wiped them out in 1533 and so it's relatively young right so 1200 ad roughly to 1533 um [1:48:07] And they attribute most everything to the inker. And it's just not – you just look at it and go, this is not remotely possible. There's a huge difference. You see these three different layers of architecture. [1:48:18] There's a – [1:48:19] a guy in Peru that, um, has been researching this stuff for 50 plus years, him and his father, uh, Jesus, um,

[1:48:25] Gamara, who has this classification system for the... [1:48:29] the architecture in Peru. [1:48:31] So you have, he calls them Hananpacha, Urenpacha, Ikunpacha, the three levels. These words have many meanings in Quechua. [1:48:40] But it starts with like the oldest stuff seems to be this monolithic carved, really bizarrely carved mountains like rock bedrock. It's not they're not blocks. It seems vastly ancient. There is all these channels and massive structures and shapes carved into the living rock of the mountain. And it's like the lowest level usually shows the most erosion. [1:49:02] Then you have the megalithic [1:49:04] Stuff like the Ex-Sexy Woman... [1:49:06] You've seen pictures of that, you know, Saxe-Waman, and the core of Machu Picchu. Yeah. Oyente Tambo, these giant, you know, the streets of Cusco, these huge megalithic blocks that have all got these perfect joins between them. You can't fit a razor blade in between them. They're flowing. They're mortalist walls. They're incredible. It's one of the best, the most amazing parts of the Sacred Valley is the proliferation of this sort of megalithic work. But then on top of that... [1:49:30] You have the Inca work, the Ikunpacha. It's literally cobblestones that are put together with mud mortar. It's like a local rock. [1:49:37] and they've stuck it together. And so you have this very distinct layers. I have pictures of this stuff, Jamie, in the South America... [1:49:45] um directory on there but it's it's super clear like there's no blending like it's it's like boom okay here's here's the oldest layer here's the next layer here's the inkler and it's always in that order like it's always like 100 parts on the bottom then the megalithic stuff on top and then the inca work on top of that because they were repairing stuff so even the inca never talked about them making sites like saxay wamun they have all these other stories for it like that you know the giants built it is one of the explanations you work yeah this is a great

[1:50:15] You see that clear distinction in the architecture. You have the megalithic stuff and then you have the repair work on top. [1:50:22] The cobblestone work. [1:50:24] And it's just, this is all I, once you see this, you can't really unsee it. [1:50:28] as you go all over the Sacred Valley. [1:50:33] And some of these, this is small compared to the type of stuff you see in Saxe-Waman, where some of the blocks get up towards 200 tonnes, 150 plus tonnes, and... [1:50:42] And all of the same type of stone. Yeah, this is Tiwanaku. And so... [1:50:46] You know, there's this... [1:50:47] long history of of unknown and so in egypt you have this connection a cultural connection that you know they have their king's list they have they talk about zep tepi they clearly have this connection to whatever builder culture was there they talk about it i mean it's part of their origin stories but in south america you have something else happen like there's a big gap like you you don't have the inca don't have that that precursor culture they came from the south they talk of their origin story comes from lake titikaka up into the sacred valley and then they [1:51:17] of cultures to the Inca, but there's this huge... [1:51:20] unknown it's like we just don't know what happened um [1:51:24] There are other sites in Peru, like Graham Hancock's been out there recently. I was out there just recently too. There are pyramid sites in Peru that are 5,000 years old, places like Corral. [1:51:36] They're not sophisticated. It's incredible work in terms of the amount of stone that's been used, but it's not megalithic or precise, but there are pyramid cultures that stretch back at least 5,000 years. But in terms of the real megalithic precision work in South America, we have no clue who did that.

[1:51:57] Probably the strangest site. One of my favorites is Pumapunku, Tiwanaku. You heard of this place in Bolivia? Sure. Tough to get to. It's amazing. It's up on the high Altiplano, like 12,500 feet. [1:52:10] Um... [1:52:11] above sea level. [1:52:14] It's like nothing else on the planet. The stonework there is massive. It's precise. It's playful. There are just endless 90-degree turns, perfectly polished surfaces, like saw marks, cut marks. Do you have some images of this? Yeah. I have a Tiwanaku... [1:52:31] directory there, Jamie. And then, uh, [1:52:34] And it's... [1:52:36] It's quite well preserved because it was buried in mud. It's slowly been excavated. [1:52:42] There is a lot of evidence that suggests this place is at least 10,000 to 12,000 years old, again, using... [1:52:50] Yeah, endless like this sort of andesite work. See, there's a left-turn arrow for some reason. But... [1:52:55] But it's this playful nature, if you, like the H blocks are famous at this place, but they just have these endless little insets and duns, like stuff like this. Like this is one of my favorite blocks to show people. That is a, you're looking down on top, so the ground's down. So I'm looking down this thin channel. [1:53:10] that's been cut into this block, and it has all of these little drill holes in it. [1:53:14] And these are like tiny little drill holes, and this channel's about this wide... [1:53:18] And it's cut into this block. You have several blocks with features like this. Like it's clearly something's been attached to this. Like it's how do you cut this? [1:53:27] In stone.

[1:53:29] you know, thousands of years old. [1:53:31] But... [1:53:32] It's a remarkable site full of these sort of examples. [1:53:36] And, [1:53:37] It's attributed in general to a culture that lived there around 1100 AD. They're still digging stuff out of the ground. It was destroyed in a cataclysm or just some sort of massive mud flood, I think, was the end of this civilization. However, that's me and Graham. [1:53:56] And this is at 12,000 feet? Twelve and a half, yeah. [1:54:00] What would be the reason for establishing a civilization at 12,000 feet? It gets strange because... [1:54:08] So the modern... [1:54:11] First, the modern dating for it comes from a handful of carbon dates, right? They found some carbon dates and they go, okay, 1100 AD. But they've also found carbon dates that go back to 1500 BC and they just dismiss them as being unreliable. I literally think these carbon dates could literally be the last person someone lit a campfire there or was buried there. [1:54:29] There's a guy named Arthur Posnansky who's a Polish professor that lived – he spent 50 years on this site, died in La Paz, published his works in 1945. I have a copy of his books, The Cradle of American Man it's called. He spent 50 years investigating this site. He dated it at 15,000 B.C. [1:54:47] based on a whole range of other geological data, astroarchaeological dating, which has these alignment properties we can talk about. [1:54:57] He found the skull of a Toxodon there, which Toxodon is an extinct Pleistocene-era mammal that went out in the Younger Dryas, 13,000 BC. There seems to be depictions of saber-toothed tigers and smilodons,

[1:55:10] in some of the artwork there. So you have some, they say they're all pumas, but some of them have small canines. Some of them have really big canines. I mean, why is there a difference here? [1:55:20] He dates it culturally in terms of it being the origin point for not only other cultures in South America, but also Central and North America through – [1:55:30] The symbology, the Chicanas, the Incan cross, there's all these other features. So he used a whole raft of scientific techniques to date that site and to support his conclusion that it was vastly ancient. [1:55:41] And then that's kind of all been thrown aside because they found a few carbon remains that were at the 1100 AD mark. Why would you build a civilization there at that altitude? You wouldn't. [1:55:52] You just wouldn't. It's too hard. It's above the tree line. There's no natural trees. And this gets wacky because... [1:55:59] But today, Tiwanaga was a port. They admit, even the archaeologists, they talk about Puma Punku. It's like a port. There was something industrial happening there. The stone, if you look at Posnanski's original images, there's all sorts of interlocking bits of stone and sluice gates and hydrodynamic features on this place. There's a giant step pyramid that had this reservoir in the sand. It's crazy. But they tell you it's a port. And it was a port on Lake Titicaca, which today is about 10 miles away. The shoreline is about 10 miles away. [1:56:29] . [1:56:31] H.S. Bellamy in the 1800s discovered a strand line that runs basically through where Tiwanaku was. So a strand line is like, you know, basically the shoreline of an ancient water, body of water. And it can be formed through just gentle wave action over a long period of time. It can be formed from like a high intensity period of waves, you know, something hammering a shoreline. But he measured this. He found this shoreline that runs about 400 miles.

[1:57:01] north, way down south towards La Paz. But he documented the strand line. What's really weird, and at that strand line, Tiwanaku would have been [1:57:11] at the shores of Lake Titica. It would have been a small island or a peninsula. [1:57:15] Thank you. [1:57:15] the lake level would have been right there. And that fits it being a port. However, [1:57:20] The strand line is today, it's tilted. [1:57:24] the strand lines tilt it so obviously water when it makes you know a body of water when it makes a strand line it's flat like it's it's finds its level but [1:57:33] Only geological processes, and I assume over a fair amount of time, can give it this tilt of a couple degrees, which is what they've measured. There's no doubt there is a strand line, but it's tilted. So I question whether in the period that they say Tiwanaku was built, 1100 A.D., [1:57:52] Less than a thousand years between then and now that there's been enough geological upheaval in the Andes. [1:57:57] To tilt this strand line a couple of degrees, I don't think it can happen anything like that fast. [1:58:03] I think the strand line and the evidence that it was a port shows us that this city was in fact vastly more ancient than that. [1:58:10] and that it was destroyed by... [1:58:12] By cataclysm, by flooding. [1:58:14] from the melting of the glaciers in the Andes. [1:58:19] There's strong evidence there that it may have seen multiple cycles of... [1:58:24] of glaciation and the climate would have been different during this period of [1:58:28] Like the climate change to make it this arid sort of inhospitable place that it is today, like where it's just tough to exist at 12,500 feet above the tree line where hardly anything except like fruit varieties of potato grow.

[1:58:39] They must have had better climate or, I don't know, lower altitude, but a better climate at least. Lower altitude is possible. [1:58:46] I don't think so. I mean, how much does that change? You're talking millions of years for that. Oh, boy. Because Lake Titicaca, I mean, that was sea – like, it is seawater. Like, it's not – [1:58:55] today it has like unique species in it like there's a native seahorse it's the only it's brackish water so it was originally part of the ocean that was uplifted and it's been uplifted 12 and a half thousand feet [1:59:07] But this is millions and millions of years. And it's today fed by these glaciers. So it's slightly, it's brackish. It's like it's a combination of salt and freshwater. But it has these species that can only have come from the ocean. But this is like long geological processes. [1:59:24] I think it's more likely that there was just a different subclimate or a mini climate zone in that area that must have supported that life because that place is massive. [1:59:34] The site where you go is only the barest fraction of what is actually there under the ground. They've done scans. They've found entire buried step pyramids at this site. The farmers in all the fields around it, they ran into these big blocks occasionally and like, goddammit, it ruined the tractor again. It's a big andesite block from Tiwanaku. Whoa. Yeah. And it's a super mystery. And it's also the place where those tridactyl mummies are. Right. [2:00:04] - From South America, that's right. [2:00:07] That gets real weird. [2:00:08] It does. When you take all those things into consideration. Yeah. Things get real weird.

[2:00:13] You know, there's also this evidence for technology and alignments there. I mean, this is one of the things Posnansky-based is dating on, was this structure there called the Calus Asaya. There's a big step pyramid there called the Akapana. Then there's this Calus Asaya, which is big rectangular mass. They called it the Stonehenge of the Americas originally because it was just these giant stones that formed this big rectangular structure. Today it's been reaped. They've left the big stones there, but they've kind of filled in the gaps and they've built the walls and stuff again. [2:00:43] Posnanski found was that it is an extremely accurate... [2:00:48] Solar Observatory [2:00:49] Kind of like a – I mean, similar to Stonehenge in some ways. But if you stood in the center of the west wall and you looked east, so this big rectangle – Do we have an image of this so I can look at? Yeah. If you've got a Tiwanaku, it's kind of like an overlook. [2:01:04] um [2:01:05] If you bring them all up, I can show you. Or you can type in Tiwanaki, you'll probably find pictures of it, Kala Sassaya. [2:01:12] K-A-L-A-S-A-Y... [2:01:15] SA, something like that. [2:01:19] But it's – imagine a big rectangular, huge rectangular – [2:01:25] Yeah, so that's it there. So actually it's like there's an inner structure there, but this is – so see all those standing stones? Yeah. [2:01:32] Those are the original stones. So it actually goes all the way around and all that far side. So it has an internal structure as well. [2:01:39] Interesting. So the larger stones? The original. Okay. And then they built the smaller wall later. That's all modern.

[2:01:46] Modern as far as? The last 50 years. Oh. Yeah, they reconstructed it. If you go back to Posnanski's original excavations from the early 1900s, all you see is the big standing stones. It's been quarried. Like, this is another one of those places where... [2:02:02] Literally, the core of La Paz is made from stones from Tiwanaku. It's the whole town that's here. There's a massive church that's been built. They made mines and sewer systems. It was just the most convenient source of stone. In Tiwanaku in particular, they're very square. It's really linear, beautiful blocks of anderson. Perfect building material. Why wouldn't you just take it and build cities? Yeah. [2:02:24] So they were right up until the 30s. They were just wagging loads and wagging loads and wagging loads of stone every day, every day. So the place has been used as a quarry for – similar to a lot of places in Egypt for hundreds if not thousands of years. [2:02:38] So what you're looking at is you've got to use your imagination to look at the older pictures, and even then it's barely a fraction. [2:02:45] I think of what's actually there under the ground. But what's interesting is Posnanski figured out that if you stand in the middle of the West Wall – [2:02:53] like so, looking this way. [2:02:55] And if you looked at the corner pillars on the east wall, it showed you – [2:03:01] The sun on the solstices would rise exactly on the outside corners. [2:03:07] of these pillars. Now this is, it looks like that to the eye, but if you measure it with [2:03:13] Precision instruments, you find it's about 18 minutes off now. And so when it was aligned, so it's similar to that, the Sphinx, and like when was it lined up with Leo? So when was the structure lined up exactly on the solstices and

[2:03:27] And so the motion of the earth that would affect that is called the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic. It's another one of the Milankovitch cycles. So you have – we talked about precession of the equinoxes, which is the wobble. So then you also have this tilt, like this change in the tilt of the earth. [2:03:43] So the actual tilt goes back and forth, I think, between 22 and 25 degrees, something like that. But it's a 41,000-year cycle. [2:03:51] And it's basically the change in the axis of the Earth relative to the equator of the Sun or the ecliptic plane. So if you project out the equator of the Sun where all the planets are orbiting, it's the change in the Earth's tilt relative to that plane, the obliquity of the ecliptic. And so on that cycle, it's a 41,000-year cycle, turns out that he dated it using the star charts of the time at around 15,000 B.C., [2:04:20] Now, his work was validated in the early 2000s by the Bolivian – this is a funny story – Bolivian head of archaeology in Bolivia and these astronomers that went there and said, let's check Posnansky's work using the Astronomical Almanac, more up-to-date. [2:04:39] information and they said yes indeed he's he was correct like if if you assume this was a an align like an alignment [2:04:47] thing this would have lined up right on basically 12,000 years ago 13,000 years ago 10,000 BC or plus [2:04:56] 41,000 years, I guess, for the cycle. So, and the guy, Gustave, I've forgotten his name, damn it. But the guy who was in charge of the Bolivian Department of Archaeology at the time,

[2:05:06] Once he made that announcement... [2:05:09] Lost his job. [2:05:12] And I don't think he's ever been talked of since. Yes, the official dates for Tiwanaku haven't changed. However, these guys also figured out that if you spun it around... [2:05:21] and you looked from, it's also aligned to the sunsets [2:05:24] on those solstices. So if you go on the west wall and, sorry, you go on the east wall and look west, it also perfectly lines with the sunsets. You also get the solstices in the centre. So... [2:05:32] You know, solstice is being, sorry, equinox is in the center, solstice is being the shortest and longest day of the year where the sun's furthest north and furthest south. [2:05:40] and then Equinox is in the middle. [2:05:42] So it's perfectly aligned with that, but just off kilter a little bit because of that motion of the earth. Yeah. [2:05:50] uh the the change in the obliquity of the ecliptic so it's it's it's not an accident put it that way it's not it's not just a coincidence that it's that it's aligned this way it was it was set up that way to be a solar observatory and if you look at it with an open mind it's an insane date [2:06:03] Yeah, it is. I mean, even within this cycle of 10,000 BC, I mean, that's the Younger Dryas period. Like, this is... [2:06:10] You know, this is... [2:06:12] It's a significant marker for South America because I can tell you the younger drys had a tremendous impact on South America. Something like 75% of the megafauna species in South America went extinct. Although you are up in the Andes, they may have been more protected from the full extent. Who knows, though, fires and smoke, they would have had the... [2:06:32] you know, the blackening of the skies and all the rest of it that would have happened during that Younger Dryas extinction event.

[2:06:38] But... [2:06:39] Yeah, something happened. I mean, they... [2:06:41] Again, there's been... [2:06:43] I think there's been a cycle of glaciation and deglaciation in the Andes that's affected the lake and... [2:06:51] and a lot of the stuff up there in particular, just because we know that there are structures, get this, there are structures beneath the waters of Lake Titicaca today, made from red sandstone, that match kind of the oldest layers at Tiwanaku. [2:07:05] So, [2:07:06] They might have been made. [2:07:08] Beneath the water. Beneath the water. So the lake level must have been lower. Right. [2:07:12] And then something happened where a lot of water got added. Temple found on Lake Titicaca. And this is in 2000. [2:07:20] Stone anchor, what is that word? [2:07:22] Adenominal? Yeah, 660 foot long. Hand animal. [2:07:27] And animal? Spissing a space. Oh, stone anchor and animal bones were found amongst our artifact scientists. Wednesday said it's connected to. Wednesday said they had found beneath South America's Lake Titicaca – [2:07:40] in what there's something wrong with this translation look at all these words are jammed together even where it says titty cock and then science there's no space my five-year-old website [2:07:49] Yeah, but that seems weird. Like it's like recoded or something, right? After 18 days of diving below the clear waters of Titicaca, scientists said Tuesday they have discovered a 660-foot-long, 160-foot-wide temple. [2:08:03] A terrace for crops, pre-Incan road, and a 2,600-foot containing wall. Holy shit. Yeah. I strongly support the hypothesis that was found by the – what is that word?

[2:08:20] Atahalupa? Something like that. It's clearly a Peruvian word. Atahalupa 2000 expedition. Yeah. [2:08:33] A Bolivian scientist who was among those who explored the site around 90 miles northeast of the Bolivian capital of La Paz. [2:08:40] Yeah. So there's stuff underneath the water. It says it's filmed. [2:08:44] They have film of that? Can we see what that looks like? Try to find it? Yeah, I was... I just... [2:08:49] Thought this was easier because I couldn't find a good video. [2:08:51] Oh, it's got to be. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but I have to try to find it. Oh, my God. So it said it's made over 200 dives in a water 65 to 100 feet deep. I'd love to know exactly how deep. Does it say how deep it was? Because, I mean, that's a significant change in the level of the lake. So, yeah, Lake Tutti Kaka is 12,464 feet above sea level. That is bananas. Yes. [2:09:14] We went and stayed out on an island on the lake with no electricity. The sky at night was absolutely phenomenal. If you were a gambler, how old do you think that is? [2:09:23] Yeah, I would put it at least – [2:09:26] I'd say at least in that – [2:09:28] 12,000 to 15,000 years, if not significantly older. I don't know that there were periods of time in that lake where that level was that low. [2:09:38] Um, [2:09:39] It's – what – [2:09:40] What's crazy is that there's been a variance. Like there's structures beneath the current lake level, so the water was lower, and then we know from the strand line that the water was – [2:09:49] God, what is it? I think 40 metres almost higher than what it is now when it would have been at the shores of Tiwanaku. Which is indicating a long time period of change. Yes, and the tilted strand line. So if you were talking about Tiwanaku, if I was a gambler, I would put it at tens of thousands of years. I don't think – I don't even – and this is speculation.

[2:10:08] I don't think it fits even within the 10,000 to 12,000-year cycle. I think it's got to be tens, like multiple tens of thousands of years for that to be – [2:10:17] Where it is. And in fact, when I was there... [2:10:20] Literally like... [2:10:21] two weeks ago, [2:10:23] We made some observations that I hadn't made there, but I'd spent a bunch of time at Tiwanaku over the years. But we figured out that those big pillars of that Kallus Asai, we thought they were andersite. They're granite. [2:10:34] The ones on one side, they're actually granite, and they're very heavily eroded. Again, you have that big scoop out of it. You can see the bottom where they were buried. [2:10:43] But there's this huge amount of erosion and granite erodes way more slowly than things like limestone. So I think the erosional data there needs to be studied because I don't know how long it would take even in that environment. [2:10:57] which gets more rainfall than places like it is. It can rain quite a bit. You get these storms. [2:11:02] But I think it takes a long time to erode granite that far. [2:11:07] um the stuff that's been exposed and above you know the the mud and when there was it was clearly some sort of big mud flood that came in that knocked this stuff down uh the stuff that was been facedown or buried in the mud has been quite well preserved and protected [2:11:20] oh is this the film? there's like one minute of underwater footage whatever that is it looks Inca Lake Titicaca underwater archaeology [2:11:29] Yeah, gold Incan figurines. Well, the Inca were definitely there at the lake. There's the island of the sun, island of the moon. That's Inca. [2:11:36] with his big old dick well you should see that makes reminds me of like the you should have see some of the pottery they make right like they was uh we were make i was making photoshops with my friends with it there's it's literally like dick and balls and

[2:11:48] Like all this pottery, they had this whole erotic section of the Larko Museum, and it's always good for a little giggle. So is it safe to say that less exploration has been done at this site? [2:12:00] Yes, for sure. It's still being slowly excavated, but yeah, this isn't, I mean, the wheels are grinding slowly. They're slowly trying to renovate, they're trying to encourage tourism, but there's so much of that site that needs to be dug up. It hasn't had anything like the attention Egypt has. Is there the same sort of pushback against dating? [2:12:20] other than that one guy but it's the same everywhere yeah yeah so it's a like a human characteristic of people that are in control of a narrative they don't well it's tough to explain there's just that they don't want to deal with this possibility of a culture down there that's that old i think it upsets too many other apple carts so i feel like it's been it's been it's [2:12:39] It's kind of been, well, we found these carbon dates. This fits kind of the timeline of what the Inca said to, because the Inca talk about emerging from Lake Titicaca. Yeah. [2:12:47] and going north, being pushed out by the Amara people. And if you think, okay, the Inca arrived in the Sacred Valley from the south around 1200, [2:12:55] between 1100 and 1200 AD, so therefore they might have been at Tiwanaku at 1100 AD. [2:13:00] So it kind of fits that timeline, but it doesn't mean anything. Like the Inca could have been down. The Tiwanaku could have been there forever. I think the Inca, sure, that's the timeline for that civilization. And as we've established, everywhere you see people put a civilization on top of an older world. Yeah, 100%. The Inca were very respectful. This is the other thing about the architecture in that part of the world is…

[2:13:23] The layers are very respectful, other than the Spanish. They smashed it a lot. But the Inca were very respectful, and they tried to rebuild even. Like where they could rebuild megalithic structures, they would. Here's a great example. And I also think a great example of why – [2:13:40] why it's not possible that the Inca did all of this, because it's in such a short period of time. Again, their civilization lasted barely a couple of hundred years. [2:13:49] and there's so much of it [2:13:50] of this stonework and it's just [2:13:52] complete night and day difference but so in Cusco there were like 13 high Incas these these kings of the Inca empire like the the high Inca the big big dude and he had his court with his advisors they called him a panaka and they and it was a hereditary thing so the son would inherit and he'd make his own panaka his own people he'd also have his own palace you couldn't live like the son couldn't live in the house of the father so they would build a [2:14:19] another spot in Cusco, in this city. Cusco is a crazy city. It's like megalithic, Inca, colonial Spanish, modern, all piled up on each other. It's an amazing city. But if you actually look at where these courts were, like starting with Manco Capac, the first sort of high Inca around 1200 AD... [2:14:38] You have the first seven or eight of these high inca, when they would build their structures and their palates, they would rebuild like a megalithic courtyard. It'd be these big, massive stones. Or they'd inhabit and they'd repair it. They'd have these huge, big megalithic courtyards. But as soon as they switched from, I think, the 8th to the 9th or the 7th to the 8th,

[2:14:58] It's all small cobblestones. [2:15:00] It's just all of their courtyards, like their palaces, were made from small local stones stuck together with mud mortar. It's like, well, hang on. [2:15:09] He's saying that if you say that the Inca built all of this stone, [2:15:13] then all of a sudden you're saying, well, between one generation and the next, you lost all of this capability to do the fancy stuff, the big stuff. [2:15:20] which doesn't make any sense. [2:15:21] It's much more likely what they did was they found an abandoned, ruined megalithic city. They rebuilt it, and they ran out of megalithic courtyards to... [2:15:30] to renovate for the next king. [2:15:32] That's what happened. So the first bunch of these high anchors have these megalithic courtyards, and then the next... [2:15:37] right up to the end. They're made from small local cobblestones. It's like... [2:15:41] Were they just not special enough for the big special stonework? It's just you can't imagine within such a small... [2:15:49] couple centuries that they lose all that capability. It's just not – none of it makes sense. The only thing that makes sense when you look at that architecture down there is, yeah, they were rebuilding older stonework, [2:16:02] They were repairing it. They were putting their stuff back on top of it. I mean – [2:16:06] There's so many amazing... Ayante Tambo is one of my favourite sites down there, just because it's so obvious. There's these giant 80, 90-ton granite blocks that make up this structure, and it's fallen apart. And they've tried to move these things, and in between them, they've just stacked all these little local crappy little stones in between. Do you have any images of that? [2:16:26] I have the Ollantaytambo directory, tons of pictures.

[2:16:30] And in fact, that's a whole other interesting... [2:16:33] story because that place is another example of what you see a lot of in Egypt, which is this [2:16:39] phenomenon of just something happened and they went tools down. [2:16:43] We're not finished. We're in the process of doing stuff and just drop work, leave. Whatever happens, cataclysm, social class, something happened. [2:16:51] We know a lot about Ollantaytambo. It's at the top of a mountain in the Sacred Valley. [2:16:57] Yeah, so this is a great example of the rocks on top of this stuff. Yeah. [2:17:01] There's a great little drone video, actually. One of the videos in there is... [2:17:06] a drone shot from the top of this. It's at the top of the steep mountain. They built this structure... [2:17:11] No, go back one. [2:17:14] That's at the quarry. So I'm standing on one of the stones. So yeah, that's it there. And at the top of this are these giant... [2:17:21] 80-ton granite blocks that make up this central, they call it a sun temple. And we know where those come from. It's like if you imagine this giant mountain, there's a big old valley to the left of it, and then another giant mountain. And at the top of that other giant mountain is the quarry for this granite. It's about... [2:17:37] probably five, six miles as the crow flies, but it's probably like 10 or 12 to walk it. And I've walked it. We've climbed up to that quarry. And all the way along this path, they have what I call these tired stones, which are, [2:17:50] giant blocks of granite that they just dropped. They just left them there. Tired stones. They're called the tired stones, yeah. And, in fact, if you see in the very bottom left here, there's a road that they built –

[2:18:01] And if you look at some of these other images, I'm standing on some of these rocks. This one, this is one of the examples. They had to build the road around it. [2:18:09] the modern road around it. And this block, when you pace it out and measure it, it's probably not less than 90 tonnes, [2:18:14] of granite. [2:18:16] And, I mean, we couldn't – I mean, shit, the equipment to try and move this on this would destroy this road. [2:18:22] to try and lift this. But there's like a dozen or more of these things all the way up to the quarry [2:18:28] at Ollente Tambo [2:18:30] But it's just, again, it's very obvious that the Inca rebuilt this. But something happened here where they went to us. Yeah, these are the big... [2:18:37] 80 ton blocks. [2:18:39] uh, [2:18:40] In the center of it. This is one of the examples I love to show people. It's like, okay, you're telling me the same people did all of this stonework, the stuff in the middle, and like this little filler work in here? Yeah. If we were to attach to a timeline, it would be way more likely that what you're saying is correct, especially when you're looking at it like this. Yeah. Look at the massive stones and the way they're cut and then what's above them. Yeah. Yeah. [2:19:03] Yeah. [2:19:03] Wild stuff, man. It really is. Because what happened? And the evidence of the mud, that's the other thing. [2:19:10] For sure, at Tiwanaki, yes, there was a huge... And something happened here, like a cataclysm happened here. Look at these blocks. These big blocks are scattered around. Something knocked this structure over. [2:19:22] And these are huge blocks of stone. What had happened to cause that? [2:19:27] That's a good example of the Hunanpacha, the carved bedrock. You see a lot of this crazy stuff. In fact...

[2:19:32] There's also tool marks here. Like in one of the big Hunanpacha, if you look, there's like a grid of cuts in one of these pictures here, Jamie. That one's nuts because – go back. Look at that. That one's nuts because it was removed. Right. So people often say, well, this Hunanpacha is a quarry. I'm like, really? [2:19:49] I like this, there's many examples like this, where this isn't a quarry. How do you make the back... If you're trying to take a block of stone out... [2:19:57] Right. How are you doing that? How are you making the back cut? You can't. It's like a box. You have to cut it out. Right. Deliberately shaped. [2:20:04] And that block is not... [2:20:06] we don't know where it's not now i think it was i think we think uh we were talking a lot about this most likely it was meant to house something either other stone or something else was going on here this is stuff that's since been removed [2:20:20] And in fact, in one of these pictures, there's like a semicircle with all these cut grid lines in them. These are more lazy, tired stones out in the fields. You go marching around in these cornfields and you find them all over the place down here. It's great. That's so strange. It's a very – this is the thing – here we go. So if you zoom in on that. So this is up the hill. Ooh. And these are cut marks. It's like a grid pattern that's been cut into the stone. [2:20:48] I don't know how with what, but you actually can't see this from the ground. And we were super lucky in that there was a huge festival going on in the town and all the guards were at the festival. So they'd never let you get up here otherwise. We climbed up this halfway up this mountain to get a picture of those...

[2:21:04] cut lines, which is, again, not... [2:21:05] attributable to the very basic tools that the Inca had, right, barely in the Bronze Age. This is nuts. Yeah, so this is that drone footage. [2:21:13] Also, because the guards weren't there, they would have gone nuts if they'd caught us droning. Oh, really? They don't like you droning? No. No, can't do this. Why so many restrictions? I mean, wouldn't all this, especially from someone like you, wouldn't all this encourage tourism? I think you'd think so, but it's not the case. In fact, they're getting worse, unfortunately, in parts of Peru, just in terms of the ropes and the restricted areas you can't go to. [2:21:43] Central megalithic area. Just looking at this drone footage, there's such a clear difference between the original stone that's below and then the stuff that the more modern people built above it. There's such a difference between the original stone. [2:21:58] in the way the stone is constructed yeah wild stuff man it's night and day so that's what i like about so once you see it in south america it's very clear because you just you know again in egypt you just had a longer ancient civilization that were able to develop higher capabilities than say the inca did in fact the quarry for this stone is way on that other mountain across the valley at the top [2:22:19] You can't quite see it, but they hold these big blocks over very difficult terrain at height. This is still 10,000 feet. What is the largest of these stones? It'd be 100 tons at least. I mean, it's Saksaywama, and you're closer to 200 tons.

[2:22:34] I think at Tiwanaku the biggest sandstone block I might be rising to something like almost three, four hundred, something like that. Three hundred maybe? Is a big red sandstone block? [2:22:44] Are those cross marks, the etchings of the stone, is that the only evidence of tool marks? No, we've seen others, particularly in Tiwanaku. I mean, this is actually up at the quarry, so this is... [2:22:56] Yeah, this is up that other mountain we hiked up. [2:23:00] I can't imagine trying to carry a ton of rocks up here. This was hard enough. [2:23:06] Yes, so in Tiwanaku, you certainly see a lot more evidence for tool marks, and [2:23:12] In South America, you have tubular drills, you have all sorts of... [2:23:17] kind of crazy... [2:23:19] What look like tool marks and functional aspects of stone in particularly places like the Coricancha, which is the big central structure in Cusco. It was this – today it's a Catholic church, but it's megalithic, and the inside walls have all – I mean, some of the blocks have been put out and are on display, and there's a lot of the inside structures that are still there. Yeah, there are similar sort of tube drills that have been cut. There is a lot of similarities to some of the tools that you see in megalithic Egypt. [2:23:49] shoot I mean [2:23:50] If I was to bet, I would say it's either the same or an offshoot of the same civilization that did the megalithic stuff. [2:23:56] in the other parts of the world, for sure. It's just the megalithic work itself... [2:24:00] It's just like there's skyscrapers in Tokyo. [2:24:03] boom that's it yeah yeah it's like you know some these reductionists and the skeptics will say well it's

[2:24:10] It's like a guy that you want to kill an animal, you make a flint. [2:24:15] arrowhead or whatever right and i can i can understand that process where you you you are you are solving a problem and maybe and getting at it the same way however when it comes to to walls like stone walls i i'm very skeptical that two completely separate cultures found the most difficult the most complex the hardest way to make a stone wall and chose that because that's what megalithic walls are like these giant blocks that are perfectly shaped together this is the thing [2:24:45] streets when you look at some of them have been shaken apart from earthquakes so you can see they're complex like they're curved not only is other not only does the the line it's not straight so the lines curve where they join the face angles change [2:25:00] So it changes this way, but also the face angle changes and they perfectly match. [2:25:06] It's mind-boggling to understand how they might have actually put those stones together. It does lead people to the geopolymer ideas of stone softening. [2:25:17] My buddy Kyle, Brothers of the Serpent podcast, who travels with us, he has a great idea that it might have been a resonance thing where you're actually resonating – [2:25:26] and and grinding stones together slowly where so they once you know you basically they'll match eventually if you're just like grinding there are jeweler's tools like that do similar things you can cut through you know they do it on real small stones but you can cut through granite with a star shape or whatever with with these jeweler's tools that get to the right resonant frequency and they just sort of grind through like an ultrasonic drill or something that cuts and just vibrates its way through if you turn it off while it's in there it's like

[2:25:53] Excalibur, right? It's stuck in the stone real tight. You have to have this, but, you know, obviously you're talking some advanced technological capability to be able to vibrate a 50 ton stone to make it grind into its neighbor. But it's about the most plausible thing I've heard because... [2:26:09] I can't. [2:26:10] imagine that this was done by all right we lift it up we measure it we mark the high spots we rub it down we take you know we put it back up and it's you're saying this for stones that are 150 tons this is not [2:26:20] It's not happening like that. Yeah, let's pull up some images of what you're talking about, these very bizarre shapes that they're perfectly matched to fit into each other like a jigsaw puzzle. I think in the South America, Jamie, there will be some walls, some of the walls in the streets. The speculation is that they did it in these shapes to protect against earthquakes. [2:26:38] One of them, that's the coricantia. Keep going. There's the wavy lines. Yeah, this stuff, right? Yeah, this stuff. This is like the Inca-Roka wall. And there's probably some pictures of the broken sections where you can see these inside joins. That's Sacsayhuaman. So it's the same thing, just a much bigger scale. Yeah. [2:26:54] Weird. Yeah, some weird, bizarre stuff. Weird stuff. Go back to the curvy ones back the way – Yeah, that one. Yeah, this green one. That one. Yeah. That's nuts, man. What are the nubs? I don't know. No one knows, right? We talked about the nubs endlessly. Yeah, people – all sorts of speculation. Like people have geopolymer explorations for them. People have – [2:27:17] A lot of people try to say they're lifting bosses, and that's not how this – they would flip over. They're not in the right place. One thing's for certain, I think, with the nubs that is an observation a friend of ours, Chuck, a geologist made, which is that –

[2:27:32] If you look at how stone is quarried, right, so one of the common methods still used to some extent today, but certainly is attributed to cultures like this and the Egyptians, is what they call a wedge and feather quarrying, right? You cut these little wedges out. [2:27:46] And then you hammer in. [2:27:48] either wood and wet it and tries to, you're trying to split stone basically, you try and they still do it today. [2:27:54] One thing you'll never be left with. [2:27:56] in a splitting or a wedge and feather approach is a nub. Like you can imagine, you can't imagine these stone faces splitting and leaving these bloody nubs that are on all of these walls. Right. So... [2:28:06] They're formed. They're either deliberately formed or they're a result of some other process we don't know. But they're not the result of this sort of primitive quarrying method. [2:28:18] I don't know where they are, but they're on everything. And that's another – It's weird that they leave them there as well. Well, they're in Egypt too. Like they're on the – like if you compare that wall to like the third pyramid, the Menkara pyramid, it's exactly the same. I mean it looks exactly the same, the pillowy appearance on the – not like unfinished. Let's find an image of that. [2:28:35] Minkara Pyramid? Yeah, the granite? It's just so weird because they're not in a uniform position either. [2:28:42] No. And, and, [2:28:44] You find examples. There's been surface wear on a lot of this stone. There's plenty of examples where it was very finely reflective and polished originally. So there's been spalling on the surface. It feels rough today, but there are sections. Yeah, so this is Mencara.

[2:29:03] It looks the same. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah, nubs. But a little larger. In some places. Those are big ones, but there's other ones that are smaller. Yeah. [2:29:11] Very much like that. [2:29:13] Yeah, that Facebook picture there, I guess, is a good nub picture. But even in Minkara, there's some evidence that they were flattening some surfaces of the pyramid. Whether or not they intended to flatten the whole thing, we don't know. [2:29:28] Funnily enough, they have actually found that there's probably another hidden entrance to this behind that blank flattened wall there on the... [2:29:34] The Turkey Today, air-filled anomalies under Mankara Pyramid. Yeah. So this is on the... [2:29:40] Well, that'd be eastern side, I guess, of the pyramid. Yeah, the eastern side where the pyramid temple is. The entrance is in the north, but there's a flattened part of this wall on the eastern side, and they've been hitting that with like a radar thing, and they found that there are some anomalies behind there, so there might well be an entrance behind. [2:29:59] behind this wall. Yeah, that looks a little odd. Like, that wall looks a little different than the surrounding stone. [2:30:05] Well, for sure. And there's some evidence that they had a patch like that. One of the hypotheses, again, I've got to credit. [2:30:12] Kyle and Russ from Brothers, they're construction guys. So they look at this stuff and they have a great theory about this because on all – there's – [2:30:19] A lot of the casing stones are missing on the back, but we found blocks that were smooth like that with the angle for the other side. So what I think there were probably four... [2:30:28] patches like that now what you could be one possible explanation for this is like well you you very carefully grind and finish a section on each side because that sets your angle once you set your angle you can use that patch as a reference point to then basically try to finish the whole rest of the pyramid at that exact angle so you got to start somewhere you met you very carefully set your angle right

[2:30:52] correctly on that patch and then you can use that as a reference to then smooth out [2:30:57] the rest of the surface, which you say smooth out. [2:31:00] In places, there's this much granite you've got to remove. Like a foot of granite's got to come off these stones to get down to that level. They're so pillowy. [2:31:08] pillowy, it's granite. I mean, it boggles the mind. It's like... [2:31:13] This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry. Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. [2:31:43] you can stay locked in on the game all the hosting none of the hassle order now for 30% off your game day snacks and grocery order only on uber eats for a limited time offer eligible for 30% off entire order taxes fees and terms apply offer valid through july 5th product availability varies by region exclusions may apply this episode is brought to you by dodge the new dodge charger scat pack is [2:32:13] for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin-turbo six-pack gas engine. All gas, no mercy, 550 horsepower, 0 to 60 in just 3.9 seconds, and a top speed of 177 miles an hour. Woo! Unlike vehicles that make you choose between traction and attitude,

[2:32:43] drive and a selectable rear wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts. Available in both two-door and four-door models, the new Charger Scat Pack. It's loud, it's fast, it's powerful, and unapologetically Dodge. Learn [2:33:13] scooping tool or whatever to do it. Are there competing theories as to what the nubs are for, other than using it to lift the stones in place somehow? Oh, yeah. [2:33:22] Yeah, um... [2:33:23] You know, some people suggest some of them may have been like little, I mean, there are different types of nubs. The subtle ones, not all work as lifting nubs. Some people say in the geopolymer world where they say, well, stones were formed or cast, they'll say, well, these are like heat expansion points. I've heard good theories from certain people that suggest it had something to do with the mass of the stone, like a resonant, like as you change the mass of a stone, [2:33:53] it has might alter because you also have scoops you have nubs and you have scoops so you seem to have this reduction of mass and then there's more mass in another place so maybe it had something to do these are different theories i've heard i don't have a good explanation for them it's so weird how it never comes up again [2:34:09] in human history. Yeah, we don't make stuff with knobs. It's weird. It's really weird. Well, it's a commonality. It's one of those other indicators. It's like, hey, this is the same. How come this is the same? Isn't it in Japan as well? Yeah, there's places in Japan. I mean, there's a place I want to, I've been there, I've just not explored all those sites.

[2:34:28] Yes, there's some really megalithic stonework in Japan that actually matches a lot of the stuff in Peru. See if you can find some of that, Jeremy, please. Yeah. What's that, bro? [2:34:38] I'm looking on different ones. Oh, wow. Where's that? That looks like turkey. Turkey. Yeah. Turkey's another one. [2:34:43] Those are more consistent nubs, I would say. Fairly, right? A little more. [2:34:50] A bit more deliberate. There's also a lip on that. Still weird. It is. It's like, what are you doing? Are you copying what other people did? That's a possibility for sure because we're very good at that too. You do see a lot of imitation stuff. [2:35:02] right uh who taught you to do it yeah there's there's there's a there's a few there's a few people really obsessed with the the stone nubs and i can see why like it is a real mystery see those those one that's an orienta tambo that's those are bedrock nubs too those aren't even in blocks that's in bedrock and those are a bit more deliberate i would say like they're more like maybe they're shadow and and you know markers for like um uh some sort of calendar these this is [2:35:32] Square ones, I don't know what that's for, they're different again. [2:35:36] Um... [2:35:37] What is your take on that sage wall in Montana? I haven't been there and seen it. I've been wanting to. Those are weird. Yeah. [2:35:44] I've heard differing opinions on that. Like, it's possibly... I'd like to see it for myself, to be honest. Uh... [2:35:51] I've seen some footage of it. Where's that one, Jamie? China. [2:35:53] China. That looks like Yangshan. Yeah, that's Yangshan quarry. And that's giant too, by the way. The Yangshan quarry is...

[2:36:01] thousands of tons like if if they'd ever cut that block off it's something like i don't some astronomical oh yeah i watched a piece on this a youtube that's yeah you see it there it's monstrous what is the timeline of this stuff uh i believe i don't off the top of my head maybe jamie you can find out ask your ai ming dynasty right yeah they they say the story on that is like like some ruler said like carve me a dragon they're like sure boss and they started trying to get this block out and then eventually some foreman went yeah maybe we can't deal with this [2:36:31] plausible to me [2:36:33] That's the size of the Yangshan quarry blocker. Oh, my God. [2:36:37] yeah thousands of tons of that and [2:36:40] What they were doing there, I do not know. And I do not know when they did it. [2:36:46] That's the weird things. There's so many sites. Those nubs would be huge. They're huge. Huge nubs. Yeah, they're different. But it's like, what do they represent? Well, so another option, I mean, something else I've heard is that in some places they could have been mounting points for something that was grabbing them or hanging on to them, some tool to finish the wall. That was another theory that came up. Or a structure around them. Yeah, a structure from them. And a base. [2:37:09] And now the Japan ones, Jamie, did you find anything? No, I was just looking around. Do you go Japan megaliths maybe? I mean, India, the Barabar Caves is another... [2:37:21] One of these mysteries that fits this box. Have you ever heard of the Barabar Caves in India? No. Oh, my Lord. That's a whole other... These are in Japan. This is Japan, yeah. This one in particular, the... Whoa. Click on that one that you just had your cursor on. That's nuts. I think that's AI. Is it? Son of a bitch. That thing looks AI. AI-powered YouTube transcription. Son of a bitch. The one on the left, just next to it, the medium one, that's definitely... And then below it, actually, is a better picture, the Asuka.

[2:37:49] So this matches a lot of the stuff in Peru to me, and even the Imperial Palace. [2:37:55] The cornerstones and corner blocks of the Imperial Palace there, the wall, [2:38:00] is very megalithic. [2:38:02] Whoa. And in fact, it's funny, they've actually been digging up the foundations. My wife was there recently and they've gone underground and they've found like original foundations and big walls and they've just opened some of that up to the public. [2:38:16] Um... [2:38:18] Yeah. [2:38:18] Some of this is very... I mean, this is totally Peru, Hunanpacha, if this is legit. Wow. [2:38:25] It matches, right? It's the same. Yeah. The same kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. [2:38:30] That's what's weird. It's like, is this a traveling civilization? Is civilization uniform all around the world at a certain point in time? It was global. Yeah, I think it was global. We're looking at the remnants of it. Look at that. Oh, my God. Offshoots of it, too. That thing in L.A. Potentially. What's that, James? It looks like that giant boulder in L.A. at the museum. [2:38:52] You know, it's like sitting over the tunnel, you know what I'm talking about, at LACMA? [2:38:55] Oh. [2:38:56] No? [2:38:56] I don't remember it. [2:38:58] I've tried to block LACMA out. [2:39:01] Look. Oh, wow. Wow. [2:39:04] Kind of. What is this? Like a sculpture? L.A. Museum of Modern Art. It's bleh. You go there, it's like, this is a plexiglass box. It's amazing. Yeah, it's with a banana peel in it. That kind of shit, yeah. Yeah, I'm not a fan of modern art. It's for dorks. It looks similar.

[2:39:21] Yeah. [2:39:22] Kind of. You're right. But not as cool. That one's cooler and obviously way fucking older. It's just so weird how these megalithic structures are so consistent. Whoa, look at that one. [2:39:34] That's nuts. [2:39:35] Where is that? There's something like, looks like Cambodia, potentially Thailand. Well, that was the other thing that we pulled up the other day, the temple in India. [2:39:44] The one that's cut entirely out of the mountain. It starts with a K. Yeah. Yeah. That's one, yeah. There's a lot in Indy. It's another place. But that's made from granite. It is cut out of granite. If you look up Barabar Caves... [2:39:58] that's also in india these are my friend patrice poillard who runs a filmmaking company in france has done an amazing documentary on barabar and they've scanned them and these are these are caves cut into big granite outcroppings that are just massive perfect um on the inside like it's mirror finished granite within like a thousandth of an inch flatness on the insides [2:40:25] Um, [2:40:26] And... [2:40:27] They have these crazy shapes. Some of them have these circles, but then they have a whole other room in the back that's circular. And that's an unfinished one. [2:40:34] Click on that doorway, please, Jamie. Like, upper left. Yeah, right there. Like, that's nuts, man. That's a lot of that. The decoration there is added. That's probably later. Again, it's the writing came later. The original doorway is probably that one. So the elephants... [2:40:49] Over the top, that's later. Yeah, for sure. There's an attribution of these...

[2:40:55] is to uh that was supposedly owned by a particular king who who gave them to like a religious cult to get out of the rain but it's he doesn't say anything about about him making them they just oh wow if you go to the ins the insides is what's impressive in here it's the finishing of the granite they're mirror finished [2:41:13] And it turns out with the scans, what they found is they're also like almost perfectly symmetrical. Like they're not straight. They tilt in it like a degree and a half exactly on both sides. It's some of the most precise like work in granite in single piece. Again, it's one of those things where you can't make a single mistake. [2:41:33] And I mean, this is an imitation. Like this is a later attempt. [2:41:38] to replicate it. Yeah, look at that cow patty hammer, whatever the one... The two in the middle there, yeah. So this is... [2:41:46] And you literally – it reflects – I mean the acoustics in there are incredible, but – [2:41:51] This is granite and it's been polished to this mirror finish. And then it's also been measured for flatness and geometry and it's [2:41:57] It's insanely accurate. There's been a whole series of documentaries done. You can see the mirror finish in it. Wow. And nobody knows. There's nothing else quite like this anywhere. It's like giant stone boxes. Look at the size of that one. Carved into a mountain. [2:42:12] Carved into a granite outcrop in a mountain, exactly. Yeah, there's seven or eight of them. [2:42:16] All in the same area. Really hard to get to. It's like you've got to rough it and camp and stuff to get out there, but it's... [2:42:21] And how? It's on my list. Like, what's the conventional explanation of how they did this? I mean, there are literally other examples of people hammering on them with, like, trying to make replicas.

[2:42:33] with the tools of the time, and then it just jumps to this. And it's just, there's no explanation for it other than they will... [2:42:40] They did it in order to let this religious sect out of the rain. [2:42:45] Because it's literally some of the really poorly inscribed, you know, it's like the Egyptian stuff. It's like somebody hammered this text, Sanskrit or whatever it is, and it says, you know, this king gave this to these guys to get out of the monsoon. It's the ancient version of Kilroy was here. Yeah, exactly. Oh, Kilroy built this. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. [2:43:07] Wild, man. Little Timmy on the skyscraper. I've never seen that before. That's... Farabar? Yeah, I have... Completely insane. Patrice, I actually have his full documentary on my channel if people want to... Can I go with that giant... [2:43:18] statue outside is the Oya Quarry in Japan. In Japan? Whoa. So it abandoned quarry. [2:43:25] Whoa. Oh, this is like, we were in a quarry like this in Turkey. It was absolutely incredible. Whoa. [2:43:33] Look at the relationship to the size of the people that we're walking around. Is this a salt quarry or is it limestone? I can't tell. [2:43:40] A lot of them are salt cabins, but... [2:43:43] We were inside, so you have big quarries like this, underground quarries in China. We were in Turkey, and I have this amazing footage from this massive underground quarry. [2:43:54] Caves that were carved in... [2:43:57] in Turkey when we were there. [2:43:59] Look at this title. Scientists discover this structure in Japan they claim humans could never have built. How's that?

[2:44:06] How could humans have never built a quarry? Yeah. Get clicks. Yeah, you're just getting clicks, you sons of bitches. That's the game. Someone did it. [2:44:15] No one's saying it's not humans. Just saying something was going on back then where they were way more advanced than we want to give them credit for. Yeah. And when you take into account the Younger Dryas Impact Theory and the natural catastrophes that – [2:44:28] and undoubtedly have befallen many a civilization in the past. It all kind of makes sense. It's weird how many people resist it. That's the weird part. It's like they want to cling so tightly to their preconceived notions of the history of the human race. It's a weird thing, isn't it? Like the history of civilization is one of those things that hasn't changed a whole lot in about 100 years. Like the idea that civilization started with the Sumerians and the Mesopotamians 6,000 years ago and now we're here. [2:44:58] around for a long time and it's just everything else around it has shifted such that I hope... [2:45:06] I really do hope that it's just that the context, the next generation of academics. [2:45:12] can take some of this context into account. I think they will. I think a lot of them are growing up listening to stuff like your show. I think that's going to help because there's a lot of people that are getting into archaeology now, a lot of young people that are a little bit more open-minded, and then they also encounter some of these very arrogant professors and people that have these ridiculous ideas and think that they should be the absolute gatekeeper of information, which is so crazy because universities are a fairly new concept.

[2:45:42] The idea that these people that are running these universities, they should be in charge of something. This is a new thing. They should be in charge. They're the only ones that could figure it out. They have the paper. It's written. Their name is written. It's framed on the wall. You shut the fuck up. They got the letters. That is literally insane because you're dealing with something that it is not possible for everyone to know, and you're not as into it as they are. The thing is about like they're not as into these ideas as you are. You know what I'm saying? Like you are chasing this shit down. [2:46:12] There's not a lot – you are, and so is Jimmy Corsetti, and so is Graham Hancock, and so are many, many other people, and Randall Carlson and John Anthony West, rest in peace when he was alive. He was awesome. Those people chasing down these ideas are way more into it than the people that are gatekeeping the information, and they don't want to accept anything other than what they've been teaching and what they've been writing about. Yeah, it's – [2:46:36] You're right. There's a lot of – I mean, it's amazing that the medium has shifted to give – [2:46:42] people of voice, I guess, that are into it. And my friend George Howard has a great way of explaining this in terms of a potential – [2:46:51] talent pool if you consider like okay so you you current academics at least the ones that are the old guard now are kind of been selected from the people that chose to go to university that got into universities and you have this pool but now with the kind of the internet and it's like you're exposing these ideas to such a wider variety of people that you can then there's there's going to be people out there that think about these things a certain way obsessed polymaths assess polymaths that are going to be able to come forward and give those ideas and you know it's

[2:47:20] I think, you know, the vast majority of significant breakthroughs in pretty much any scientific field have usually come from somewhere that's – it's not within the box thinking. It's usually anti-establishment or it's outside the box thinking. Not always, but a lot of those ideas came from like this has come complete from left field, like germ theory, all that sort of stuff. It's like, what are you? You're crazy. You've got this dumb idea and then it turns out, oh, you know, 30, 40 years later, it's like that was the right idea. And we go from there. I mean – [2:47:48] I'm hopeful as well that [2:47:51] Yeah, the next generation of academics will be able to embrace a lot of these... [2:47:56] the context for some of these and then try to explore them because I think ultimately that's what's needed is is some take some of these ideas seriously and bend some of our resources to try and explore them on the ground and in full because there's any, you know. [2:48:11] Ultimately, it's the people that have the control and are able to do the real on the ground research. [2:48:17] are the ones that we'll be able to confirm or chase it. It takes real science in a lot of cases. And also we're currently obsessed with our impact on the environment, which is not a bad thing. It's a good thing to be conscious and aware of our pollution and our emissions and all that good stuff. [2:48:32] If we were absolutely certain that... [2:48:37] civilization has been utterly destroyed by something that is outside of our capacity to control, probably a good idea to know that that's happened. [2:48:47] Yes. [2:48:48] 100% and to deny the possibility of even exploring that concept because people are going to get their feelings hurt because you know they were because they're so bitchy to each other. That's the craziest thing you find out about these academics. They are so bitchy to each other when anybody has any sort of an idea. It's heterodox any sort of an idea that's outside of the narrative that they've been teaching forever. They attack each other's reputation. Yeah, they're a little sociopath. It is vicious. It's well, that's their version of the fight. I guess it's their

[2:49:18] The mean letters and the – yeah, it's – you know what I mean? It's weird. It is kind of weird. But they're also in today's day and age of these shows where like your show and all these other ones that we mentioned, there's – [2:49:31] there's a much more attractive approach to these ideas, you know, where people are not, [2:49:37] like bitchy authoritarians, but they're rather people that are absolutely fascinated by something that is undeniable. The size of these stones, the similarity to them all over the world, all these different mysteries, the fact that many of them are covered in mud, the fact that enormous stones look like they've been knocked off by some immense force, stuff that was left, just left there in the middle of construction. Nobody ever picked it up. Nobody ever finished it. Like what happened? Yeah. [2:50:03] Yeah, and it's really only not that long since we've had the ability to apply some of these disciplines to these problems, like engineering. It's since the – [2:50:13] industrial revolution that we've we've even had the enough background knowledge to kind of understand these problems because we have to solve them ourselves or like think about how christopher dunn approaches the idea of the great pyramid itself like no one would have ever been able to do that 200 years ago that's what i'm saying yeah like 100 that's that's it's it's these other disciplines that have a whole different take on it that and it's again not a criticism of archaeologists to say they're not engineers they're not engineers it's just they just yeah it's fact [2:50:43] I don't know much about it. You know what I mean? I can't solve those problems. Exactly. No one can solve all problems. Yeah, but hey, a dentist might have some input on some of these. You know what I mean? Sure. I think a lot of these problems are multidisciplinary is what I'm saying. Like there's a lot of different approaches and angles to them that lead to some pretty interesting places. It's funny you say that because my dentist is obsessed with UFOs. Oh, really? Super smart guy obsessed with UFOs. Trying to talk to you. Every time he's like doing it, what do you think? What do you think that is? I'm like blah, blah, blah, blah. It's fun.

[2:51:13] Talk to him. I'll bet. Yeah. Yeah. What else are you going to think about while you're feeling on something? It is a subject that is so important for us. I mean, I'm watching the Ken Burns documentary right now on the Revolutionary War. It's really great. Awesome. Amazing. Fascinating to look back at this very recent history, relatively speaking, to terms of the timeline of the Earth. And then just realize, like, that ain't shit. Yes. And that's one of the reasons it drives me, too, is why I think that's a big... [2:51:43] factor in why this is important. It's altruistic, but I do believe that having... [2:51:50] If we could change that pillar of humanity from like, well, we were Stone Age and now we're Space Age to this cyclical nature of we've been here, we've not been knocked down. Be aware of the dangers, like solve the longer term. I do genuinely think that a whole generation that's exposed to that. [2:52:06] that has that inbuilt as they're like, hey, background knowledge of what it means to be human, then maybe we would solve those problems. Yeah, maybe that's a constant test every 12,000 plus years. It seems like it. Yeah, it does seem like it. And it seems like no one's really solved it yet. And we probably get a little smarter every time we do it. But it takes forever and it probably sucks for a long time. Well, it seems like it's not every 12,000 years or so.

[2:52:36] greater than anything we've experienced in our the last several millennia um you know like a you know a thousand katrinas or whatever at a time kind of thing like that's evidence of like things like the tunguska event where like something a little bit more a little warning a little more than we've experienced before happens but nothing compared to what has experienced we've experienced or the earth has experienced in the past no for sure we've not we've yeah we've had we've had nothing but it does if you go back the last [2:53:04] a couple hundred thousand years it is has this periodacy it seems like that does for some reason align with some of those those 12 000 years and 26 000 years kind of cycles it's weird how that happens including the depictions of atlantis and the fall of atlantis well yeah i mean it's all that exactly lines on with the timeline lines up with the timelines it does dude your show is fucking awesome i love it i look forward to it every time you put a new episode [2:53:34] thing man dude i'd love that it's my favorite show i fucking love this subject so much it's so uh engaging it's so exciting you know for whatever reason there's just part of the the human fascination with the past that gets ignited in me and it's it's so um i think the audience feels the same way it's like it's so intriguing and i think you're right and i think jimmy corsetti's right and graham hancock's right i think all these people are right i think there's more to this [2:54:04] being spoon-fat. [2:54:05] thank you very much sir my pleasure brother Uncharted X it's on YouTube subscribe like and subscribe it's fucking amazing and then you what is your Instagram it's Uncharted X 1 on Twitter and Uncharted X 7 on Instagram I should probably fix that but it is what it is okay as long as it's not 6-7 that's the new thing with the kids these days oh no yeah I haven't done that about all that I have heard about it thank you appreciate you very much cheers Joe bye everybody thank you bro yeah

[2:54:35] Oh, Shamir? Yeah, we're going to talk Shamir. We can throw it back in. Can you talk about it real quick? You want to talk about the Shamir? Oh, 100%. Sorry, folks. We unended it. We unended it because Jamie had sent me this earlier today, Solomon Shamir. Yeah, the Shamir. So you are familiar with it? I am. Okay. Yeah. So this is an ancient idea that there was a worm or a substance that had the power to cut through and disintegrate stone, iron, and diamond. [2:55:05] it in the building of the first temple in Jerusalem in place of cutting tools. For the construction of Solomon's temple, which promoted peace, it was inappropriate to use tools that could also cause war and bloodshed. [2:55:17] There's also, I found since I sent that to you, there is an actual thing. [2:55:22] called a lethordia or something that they found in the philippines that does yeah it's some sort of a rock eating worm yeah yeah the shamir is like um solomon's lightsaber i like to call it yeah it's it's it is described the shamir is is it is described as a stone cutting whoa that thing ate through that so the guy who found it said he had never heard of the shamir [2:55:49] And some scientists don't know if they're even the same thing, but they're described very similarly. What a creepy-looking motherfucker that thing is, a rock-eating little worm. Like grinding stone? That's crazy. Yeah. [2:56:04] There are a number of different depictions and descriptions for the Shamir, and one of the –

[2:56:11] One of the problems with it being like this thing that slowly grinds through. [2:56:17] Yeah, see, this is the weird part. Shamir was meant to have always been wrapped in wool and stored in a container made of lead. At the end of the container would burst and disintegrate. So it's like... What? Under the Shamir's gaze? All I had to do was look at it. Whoa. I don't think it had eyes. So are we describing... What the hell? Are we describing radiation or something? Right. What are we describing? Well, it gets into the realm of the Ark of the Covenant and everything else too, right? Wool and stored in lead? [2:56:41] That's nuts. And then it lost its potency. Yes. Right after, which I don't, the dripping of the honeycomb. I don't know what that is. [2:56:48] By the time of the destruction of the first temple during the siege of Jerusalem in 500 B.C. Yes. Wow. But, again, it still exists. They found it today, like 2019, I think. Well, they found a worm that does something similar. A very similar worm. He was a giant one. Well, who knows? Maybe they could have trained him. Like, somebody can train pigeons to do stuff. Eat the wall. He had to do it fast. He could train ants. [2:57:12] One of the things, too, he had to build that Temple of Solomon quickly so that he was like, we need this. We can't use the regular methods, but we also need to be able to cut stone quickly. So one of the things that Shamir was described as doing is being able to cut these sort of hard stones. Like I think it described like diamond even. Yeah. He's cutting it quickly. The blood of Shamir was used for diamonds. But this also said he didn't find it. It was given to him. A bird found it. A bird. A bird. Someone noticed the bird was using it to make nests and rock. [2:57:40] And they're like, let's get the hold of that. So, yeah, some people also speculate that there is a bird that vomits this thing or poops this thing on rock, which can melt rock. The angel of the sea had then given the Shamir to a bird.

[2:57:55] Yes. Identified by the Talmud as a Hoopie. Yeah, but it's the oldest bird. Isn't this, I believe this is like the, we had to go to several birds, which were also these spirits he talked to. Oh, boy. And I think he had to get to the very last one. It's a lightsaber they got from aliens. It's a worm from a bird. It's a lightsaber from aliens. It's a radioactive alien lightsaber. All right. And the end. Bye, everybody. [2:58:25] Thank you. [2:58:35] This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. [2:59:05] Suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away. All through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year.

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